Vectorworks/WYSIWYG

[Sayen]

I teach at a high school, and I'm interested in introducing my students to design software being used in the field. The two biggest titles seem to be Vectorworks and WYSIWYG, with WYSIWYG being the only software I have experience with. Since Vectorworks doesn't feature a demo, at least that I could find (I even tried the sales email I found through a link here), I've tried to learn what I can by reading through tutorials online. It strikes me as a very complicated alternative to WYSIWYG?

I spent a fair amount of time reading old posts about both programs, but I didn't find any discussions as they might relate to students.

What I want to do is purchase a set of laptops and allow students to do design work, checking out the laptops for home or just being able to carry them into the theater. I have the funds setup to begin the process this year.

For those of you who have used both, do you have any thoughts on which would be better for high school students? Both seem to be almost equally common in the industry. Any thoughts on ease of training, anything like that? If you were hiring an intern out of high school, what would you want them to know?

Many thanks!

[Charc]

I only have experience with VW, but I love that **** program to death. Plus, VW is FREE for students for one year. So they can install VW on their home machines (for one year).

Right now, I'm trying to figure out the 3D portion of VW, and have yet to really take a stab at it. If someone reading this has some 3D experience, and wants to shoot me a PM, that'd be cool.

Everything I've learned about VW has been very informally, self taught, online tutorials, IM discussions with CB members, and real-world critique of final products. Like other areas of theatre, it just takes some time and energy, but the final product is awesome. That, and LW4. On the latest project, I worked a lot with VW and LW4, and my workflow become pretty fast. Exporting data from VW to LW4 is a breeze.

[derekleffew]

Originally Posted by Sayen

...If you were hiring an intern out of high school, what would you want them to know?

Vectorworks is, primarily, a drafting program, onto which visualizer functions have been added. WYSIWYG is, primarily, a visualizer program, which can handle drawings and paperwork to some degree.

In my opinion, and those with whom I work, (where cost is not an issue as they can afford to use anything available), there are three essential programs, each for a different task:
Vectorworks for drafting the plot.
Lightwright for handling the lighting database.
ESP Vision for visualization, plus either "console emulation software" or the actual console.

As for what I'd want a high school graduate to know, being fluent in Vectorworks, (for which a free student license is available, click the link above), is much more important than knowing either Vision or WYSIWYG. At the intern level, drafting skills are going to be far more important than designing/computer rendering skills.

Just my 2¢. Hope this helps.

[Grog12]

Originally Posted by derekleffew

Vectorworks is, primarily, a drafting program, onto which visualizer functions have been added. WYSIWYG is, primarily, a visualizer program, which can handle drawings and paperwork to some degree.

In my opinion, and those with whom I work, (where cost is not an issue as they can afford to use anything available), there are three essential programs, each for a different task:
Vectorworks for drafting the plot.
Lightwright for handling the lighting database.
ESP Vision for visualization, plus either "console emulation software" or the actual console.

As for what I'd want a high school graduate to know, being fluent in Vectorworks, (for which a free student license is available, click the link above), is much more important than knowing either Vision or WYSIWYG. At the intern level, drafting skills are going to be far more important than designing/computer rendering skills.

Just my 2¢. Hope this helps.

I agree with Derek to fully. Having a grasp of good CAD program can only help them in the field. Visualizers can be learned later, but really need that good grasp for laying out a design. And the current price point for students on VW '08 is amazing.

[Footer]

I will be using both WYG and AutoCAD with High School students this year. We have an emphasis system, so the WYG will be a stem off of that. For teaching purposes, I think WYG would probably be the way to go. No, its not the industry standard, but my opinion is at this level you just need to get the kids hands dirty, let their college teach them the industry. The reason I like WYG so much is the "real world" nature of it. You drop a light on a batten, turn it on, and can instantly see it in a full 3d model. WYG was built to do this, vectorworks had that.

You need to also ask some other questions around your district. Unfortunatly, at the school I will be at this fall, I don't believe that the industrial arts teachers teach a drafting class. If they did, I would really push all my students to take that class. You will still need to teach hand drafting. You don't need to go extremely far with it, but it will make things easier later.

Now as far as Vectorworks goes, I personally hate the program. I think it is a great design program, but beyond that I can't stand it. I use AutoCAD for everything that is not lighting. I learned in AutoCAD, and now can not stand not having that command line. Most people who like AutoCAD in the real world are like me, people that build things for a living. We want real measurements all the time, and we are always dealing with real measurements. Not that vectorworks does not have "real" measurements, it just tends to be a bit slower to get things exacly the way you want. Its just the way I am.

So... I would look at WYG if you are going to have another program to teach as well for traditional drafting. If you want an all in one solution, go with vectorworks.

[bdkdesigns]

Actually Vectorworks is free to students for as long as they are students. Each license is good for one year however it is renewable upon proving that you are in fact still a student. I just recently re-activated mine.

Edited to add: Oh yes, about ESP. If I'm not mistaken, isn't that one of the visualization add-ons for Vectorworks? Our copies are in the mail so I can't wait to start playing with it. However, if it is an add-on, that would also require Vectorworks knowledge which is another reason to go with Vectorworks.

[derekleffew]

Originally Posted by bdkdesigns

...Oh yes, about ESP. If I'm not mistaken, isn't that one of the visualization add-ons for Vectorworks? Our copies are in the mail so I can't wait to start playing with it. ...

You are mistaken. Neither requires the other. If one prefers, he could do the plot in AutoCAD and then import into ESP Vision. ESP does offer a plug-in for Vectorworks Spotlight, but one must still have a license for Vision.

[Footer]

There is also LD assistant for AutoCAD, from what I can tell, it has been getting pretty good reviews.

[Serendipity]

I would recommend offering VW, for a couple reasons. Aside from the fantastic price (FREE!) it has a good learning curve if you're familiar with basic drafting and/or computer applications. Plus it is available for Mac and PC (unlike AutoCAD) But mainly, drafting (specifically CAD) would be more useful sooner. For example, I don't think I'll be designing in any theaters that have access to ESPVision for quite some time, however I'm using my VW with my normal conservatory work (whether I'm assisting or designing).

VectorWorks is completely customizable, as in the menus, tool bars, work space is under the control of the user. I suggest getting them to know the tools before letting them muck up their workspaces.

I've never had any contact with WYSIWYG or ESP Vision, and although I would like to learn, I'd much rather get a strong basis in 2D/3D drafting and VW rendering first. A few people mentioned Lightwright, which I definitely love, although if you're on a limited budget, they can do the basics in Excel.

I'm really glad you're making this available! I'm a high school student and my school doesn't offer any CAD lessons, and was lucky to have a lighting luminary I could get to give me an Independent Study VW class during a TA block. Sounds like a great plan.

(And if any of you want an intern with VW proficiency... )

[Sayen]

Thank you for the input! Based on responses I think I have more research to do, including finding a local copy of VW to play with. We don't have any industrial arts classes, so no drafting for us, and I doubt I'll have time in the course of a year to teach computer drafting and a lighting program. My plan was to draft the sets myself, and allow them to import the set for design work. We're a small school and most students are only with me for a year or two thanks to scheduling, so I have to limit what we cover to still accomplish quality tech work.

Software cost isn't a problem - since I don't order textbooks yearly I found out I can tap those funds for other teaching resources.

This would be much easier if you all would give the same answer, you know?