Automated Fixtures - Why is intelligent lighting "dumb" on an ETC Lightboard

[derekleffew]

Originally Posted by porkchop

...So if you only have one rack of 96 dimmers you can get the full load of 10 fixtures with room to spare. But if you have 192 dimmers and you want to use all of them you might want to look into renting another console or just getting 4 Macs as that is all that will fit channel wise. ...

Sorry Pork, your argument doesn't hold water, as a user CAN, and often SHOULD patch multiple dimmers into a single Control Channel.

Also, it's extremely unlikely that all 192 (or more), dimmers will be in use for this production. Our own STEVETERRY's article/survey, What's Connected?, shows an average of 17% of dimmers go unused for a production in a 120V system. One CB member has 192 dimmers in his High School auditorium, but can only account for about 80 of them! (As in, only about 80 are wired to usuable circuits.) More-over many/most High Schools don't own 80 fixtures.

Also, I disagree about 8-bit vs. 16-bit. I feel it IS worth the extra two channels to run MAC500s in mode2 (14 channel).

The largest show I've programmed on an Exp3-800 was 96 dimmers, 12 Martin 1220s, 12 I-Beams, and 12 ColorFaders. The experience gave me the push I needed to learn the HogII.

[porkchop]

Originally Posted by derekleffew

Sorry Pork, your argument doesn't hold water, as a user CAN, and often SHOULD patch multiple dimmers into a single Control Channel.

Derek you bring up a good point, but I think that is really more of a matter of lighting design theory and a lot less what I was getting at. The first thing I said was look at your current plot, not count how many dimmers you have in your rack. 250 minus whatever number of channels you are using will tell you how many you have available. I certainly can think of situations where multiple dimmers into one channel could really free up space on the console and that is a very good idea in this situation that I hadn't thought of, but I chose to use 96 and 192 because they are common. I'm just trying to show the kind of thinking that needs to happen if the OP wants to use a board with a limiting number of channels like the Express 250 (for instance the rig you listed I would highly doubt could be controlled by the Express 250 for a multitude of reasons one being channel count).

As far and the 8 bit vs 16 bit. Although I'd say that the finer pan and tilt is more inportant that the vector movement all I have to say is I designed for 4 years in 8 bit and was fine with the results. If there's room for 16 bit movement use it, it's kind of a pain because you have to get close with one channel and then switch to another one and it might be close enough or might not, but that teaches the user all the wonderful things that a modern ML board does for you.

FWIW my hs had 144 dimmers (96 + 48), and my biggest show on a expression 3 was 2 technobeams, 2 studio spots, and 10 scrolls of a type I don't remember.

[derekleffew]

Originally Posted by porkchop

...If there's room for 16 bit movement use it, it's kind of a pain because you have to get close with one channel and then switch to another one and it might be close enough or might not, ...

Expression software > v2.01 does not work this way. Rather than having 255 steps of movement, in 16-bit mode, the console reads position as something between 0 and 65535 [(256^2)-1], inclusive.

[tekgoddess]

I have a wonderful relationship between my ETC board and my Martin light jockey contoller. I write the Martin cues then I can easily import them to the ETC board by assigning them a channel.
It can also be done the opposite way with the ETC cues controlled by Light Jockey but it's not as user friendly. Maybe look into a seperate controller or the combined ones mentioned by other posters.

[LightStud]

Originally Posted by tekgoddess

I have a wonderful relationship between my ETC board and my Martin light jockey contoller. I write the Martin cues then I can easily import them to the ETC board by assigning them a channel.
It can also be done the opposite way with the ETC cues controlled by Light Jockey but it's not as user friendly. Maybe look into a seperate controller or the combined ones mentioned by other posters.

??? "...easily import them into the ETC board by assigning them [cues?] a channel"? Assigning cues to a channel is a foreign concept to me, and most others I'm sure. Importing anything into an ETC console is only possible with the Expression or Obsession OLE, to my knowledge.

Please elaborate. Is midi involved? DMX in?

[tekgoddess]

On the Martin Light Jockey I first write the cues (beginning as sequences) and save them as cues. I then can open an Icon on the Martin Light Jockey computer that looks like light board channel distribution. I go to a new channel and import whatever LJ cue that I want to my ETC board to that channel. I can use it with any of my ETC cues that I've written. It's all about DMX.

[Mullet1215]

Originally Posted by tekgoddess

I have a wonderful relationship between my ETC board and my Martin light jockey contoller. I write the Martin cues then I can easily import them to the ETC board by assigning them a channel.
It can also be done the opposite way with the ETC cues controlled by Light Jockey but it's not as user friendly. Maybe look into a seperate controller or the combined ones mentioned by other posters.

At the moment this is an idea that is in the lead because of Light Jockey's visualizer and ease of use. The only worry I would have about splitting up my moving and conventional lighting is coordinating between the two of them. But currently this is a viable solution for me.

[LightStud]

Originally Posted by tekgoddess

On the Martin Light Jockey I first write the cues (beginning as sequences) and save them as cues. I then can open an Icon on the Martin Light Jockey computer that looks like light board channel distribution. I go to a new channel and import whatever LJ cue that I want to my ETC board to that channel. I can use it with any of my ETC cues that I've written. It's all about DMX.

Please pardon my ignorance. Still not following.

#1. Which ETC console do you have?
#2. What cable(s) is/are connecting the ETC console and the Martin Light Jockey together, and what is/are their gender(s)?
#3. Where does the 5pin male XLR that carries DMX512A to the dimmers and movers plug in?
#4. Are you using the word "import" correctly?

[SteveB]

Originally Posted by LightStud

Please pardon my ignorance. Still not following.

#1. Which ETC console do you have?
#2. What cable(s) is/are connecting the ETC console and the Martin Light Jockey together, and what is/are their gender(s)?
#3. Where does the 5pin male XLR that carries DMX512A to the dimmers and movers plug in?
#4. Are you using the word "import" correctly?

I believe tekgoddess is most likely using either an Expression II/III or similar Insight, that accept DMX inputs. And yes it would be nice of folks would be specific as to which console, as the Express series does not support importing of DMX.

Steve B.

[thenelsontwins]

What is the time line and what is the expectation?

Although I agree that learning moving lights and all the junk they bring with them on a more 'traditional' desk is a great way to learn and understand how they work, unless you have the time and the patience... you aren't going to get too far.

Of course i say that having no knowledge of your skills. Personally, I have been doing this for some time now and I wouldn't even bother. If the funds are around to rent moving heads, than the funds are there to rent a moving light desk. A hog 1000 is a good place to start. Again, a learning curve, but the time you will save in tweaking the cues using a desk like that will be invaluable.

An Expression does the job, but don't bother with an Express, but again, I must ask how much time do you have to complete the task?

I don't know your situation. But I would really push for another console. I mean, yes, it is great to learn the 'hard way' but unless you have the time and patience, why pretend it is 1995 again?