200' or more, from camera to projector...What's my best option?

[SjonRokz4u]

Thanks in advance everyone.
Im supplying a PA system for this show already. Now theyve asked for an 8x8 screen (rear projetion) a projector and live 1 cam to the projector for the length of the show. My problem is this could easily be 200' or more. How should I get my video back to the projector. Cam is an old JVC GYDV500 it has composite bnc and firewire outs. I dont know if its possible but there will be an audio (xlr) snake there with a couple of extra returns available. Otherwise Im looking for my best cost effective methodusing cables and adaptors. Also B and H suggested something called a banus or like word. This will be my 1st show with a projector and screen so Im open to any and all suggestions. If it helds, the projector is a Hitachi cx417 I believe, has allconnections but BNC...............Thanks!!

[derekleffew]

Two of these

Canare BNC RG59 100' Video Cable Assembly (or equivalent),

with one of these

BNC Barrel Connector in the middle,

and one of these

RCA Male to BNC Female Connector at the projector end (maybe both ends).

Should be a $10-20 rental from any A/V company.

[doctrjohn]

Originally Posted by SjonRokz4u

Also B and H suggested something called a banus or like word.

B&H probably suggested video baluns. They are either active or passive devices to allow you to send video (or audio, or USB,etc...) down a piece of CAT5 wire. This is one example for composite video. These can be incredibly useful devices, but keep in mind that CAT5 cable is very fragile and you probably wouldn't want to run it/treat it like an audio snake cable. There are manufacturers who make robust CAT5 cable, but it is not cheap.

Good luck with your show.

Best,
John

[NickJones]

Yeah, as John said, you can run it through Cat5/6, you can also run it through your audio cables with a XLR - RCA lead, as long as you amp it it should work,
Nick

[waynehoskins]

Originally Posted by NickJones

you can also run it through your audio cables with a XLR - RCA lead, as long as you amp it it should work

Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't work. Me, I wouldn't rely on it for an important input, though I'd have no problem using it for something non-critical like a confidence screen.

At a couple hundred feet, I'd be looking at something along the lines of Belden 8281, maybe 8241 or 1505A, or somebody else's equivalent. You want a cable that's flat and low-loss from DC to 6 MHz, which regular RG59/U isn't quite -- it's reasonably low-loss down there but not flat. You may experience some chroma loss since the chroma subcarrier is up at 3.58 MHz (while the luma "carrier" is effectively at DC).

[NickJones]

Yeah, alternatley, see if your venue owns the wireless units, they don't work for me (dispite the fact we own 6 of them....) as I just get a fuzzy picture for a number of reasons, but outside, could work....
Just an idea,
Nick

[ruinexplorer]

I fully support Derek. Audio and Video cables have different impedance levels. While you can send video down an audio line using suitable adapters, that does not make it a good practice. Analog signals will already have some degredation over long lengths of cable (the amount varies on the quality of the cable and the strength of the signal). If you send a signal down a long cable that is not intended to pass the video signal, you will experience degredation at much shorter lengths.

The same thing happens to lighting guys who use audio cables to connect their dmx devices. Over short lengths, no errors will probably occur. However, when longer lengths are involved, random things start to happen like stutters on moving lights or nodes that don't behave properly. This is due to data corruption. It was enough to drive me nuts to have to specify XLR data cable for my movers and inform the rental house that audio cable was not sufficient.

[NickJones]

Originally Posted by ruinexplorer

The same thing happens to lighting guys who use audio cables to connect their dmx devices. Over short lengths, no errors will probably occur. However, when longer lengths are involved, random things start to happen like stutters on moving lights or nodes that don't behave properly. This is due to data corruption. It was enough to drive me nuts to have to specify XLR data cable for my movers and inform the rental house that audio cable was not sufficient.

Yeah, this has been a problem for me, especially when you get cheap LED PARs that only take 3pin, I find it easier just to run a few meters of audio XLR then convert it strait back to 5 pin. Where it belongs

And now back on topic:
Considered the Cat5 route. It can be a lot cheaper alternative, especially if you make your own adapter. Can give you more info if you chose the route. You will still loose (some) signal due to the difference in cables, but I have worked on shows with huge budgets that chose this route, unless its HD you won't notice much difference. You can get signal reflection, due to a difference in impedance. But this shouldn't effect you too much.

Nick

[SjonRokz4u]

Great Advice Guys!! Thank you. It turns out to be more like 300ish feet now. I think the bnc with adaptor seems to be my best route. Ive found some here that I can get. Although the cat5 thing sounds interesting. What are it fragility problems? Just breakage inside or ends? Also, with the cat5 can I break it down to 50' runs and use couplers to get my desired distance?

[gafftapegreenia]

Keep in mind that the cable itself is not "BNC cable", merely those are the connectors that have been put on the ends of a length of coaxial cable. Coaxial cable is the same type of cable used to connect cable tv service. Coaxial cable can also be terminated in F and RCA type connectors. And of course, there are numerous types of adapters and couplers for each type of connector. Roughly speaking, BNC is more of the industrial standard, being more robust, while the F connector is more the consumer grade standard.

As the guys have been saying, there are different types of coax cable. I'm still learning about that so I won't go any further.

Also for further clarification. "XLR" is a type of connector, not a type of cable. Audio mic cable, color scroller cable, dmx cable - they all use an XLR type connector, just with different counts of pins. Due to common uses, the phrases "XLR cable" and "DMX cable" have come to mean a cable with a 3 pin connector for the former and a cable with a 5 pin connector for the latter. Not saying we all have to change how we speak, just making sure everyone is aware.

The problem with standard Cat5 is two fold. First, the standard crimp connectors are fragile, and thus are prone to breakage. Nuetrik solved this problem with their EtherCon connector, an XLR style housing for the Cat5 connector. The other problem is the cable itself. The thin jacket doesn't protect the cable as well in stage use. For touring shows and other heavy duty use where the cable will be subject to wear, LEX products, and likely others, make a heavy duty Cat5 cable. (Complete with EtherCon connectors). I don't think you would need such a cable for this application.


I think Derek has it right. Your rental house will have the coax cable and adapters you need. Radio Shack also carries the adapters, but they mark up their prices at least 5x. The internet is a great source for finding adapters and connectors and reasonable prices.


Now CB, for a run of 300', might signal loss be a problem? Isn't there a signal booster he could use if that occurs? I ask this question for his sake and for my own.