Need a new projector

[spiwak2005]

Here's the auditorium details:

About 60-65' throw from the booth to the screen.
Screen is full stage width of 43'.
Raked theater seating for 270.
Only ambient lighting during film is step lights.
SONY Blu-ray player.
Dolby Cinema Sound processor.

We currently have a Sharp XG-C430X projector with a Navita SSC125 lens. This is "adequate" for the typical PowerPoint, but we really need to upgrade since an increasing number of films are coming in on DVD rather than 35mm.

Budget - $15k-$20k. Projector recommendations? And what is the best connection to use from the Blu-ray player to the projector - DVi? HDMI?

What about an alternate recommendation if the budget caps at $10k?

[jongaduet]

Originally Posted by spiwak2005

Here's the auditorium details:

About 60-65' throw from the booth to the screen.
Screen is full stage width of 43'.
Raked theater seating for 270.
Only ambient lighting during film is step lights.
SONY Blu-ray player.
Dolby Cinema Sound processor.

We currently have a Sharp XG-C430X projector with a Navita SSC125 lens. This is "adequate" for the typical PowerPoint, but we really need to upgrade since an increasing number of films are coming in on DVD rather than 35mm.

Budget - $15k-$20k. Projector recommendations? And what is the best connection to use from the Blu-ray player to the projector - DVi? HDMI?

What about an alternate recommendation if the budget caps at $10k?

WE got a digital projection titan hd600. it's done us pretty well, although somehow the wiring harness sometimes mysteriously slips off of the bulb sled. it's an easy fix, but it makes my heart race pretty hard when the bulbs won't strike an hour before showtime!

I would say go with the highest lumen 1080 projector you can. Do you have a switcher/scaler in the mix somewhere? It doesn't do everything (like it implies) but my tv one c2-5200 makes sizing and placement between different sources a breeze!

What type of stuff do you use it for? You mentioned powerpoint and "films," anything else? Will the projector always be in the same place?

Also, remember that projector manufacturers have a 10-15% over/under on their lumens specs. And I'm willing to bet that its always under!!! We needed a 8000 lumen projector, so we bought one, only to find out that it's actually only spitting out 6500 lumens...BUMMER!

[gafftaper]

We recently purchased a great Panasonic projector... but it isn't appropriate for your space. I want to encourage you to decide if you need full 1080 HD or not. If you do it will probably more than double the cost of the projector. Our decision was to go standard definition for now and campaign for an upgrade to HD in 5 years or so when they become more affordable.

If you want HD, I doubt there is an option that meets your needs for under $15k... probably closer to $20k.

I'm sure museav will have some suggestions for you.

[spiwak2005]

I got a quote on this: CHRISTIE DHD700 - CHRISTIE DHD700 - FULL HD 6500 LUMENS DLP® PROJECTOR

Says it's full 1080p and would produce about 7-8 fl based on our throw distance, screen brightness and image size.

We're currently running a Sharp 4000 lumen projector (not HD). What would the fl be for that - about 2-3?

Yes it's only PowerPoint & DVD. The projector always stays in the same place - tabletop in the booth.

If I moved it forward, outside of the booth, ceiling mounted, I could possibly get it to 40' from the screen. Looking at the Christie listed above, how much of an increase in fl would that produce?

BTW - quoted price on the Christie + 1.5-1.8:1 lens is $18,000. Is this a worthwhile upgrade or are we going to be scratching our heads saying "we spent how much and it's still not bright enough?"

[ruinexplorer]

Originally Posted by spiwak2005

I got a quote on this: CHRISTIE DHD700 - CHRISTIE DHD700 - FULL HD 6500 LUMENS DLP® PROJECTOR

Says it's full 1080p and would produce about 7-8 fl based on our throw distance, screen brightness and image size.

We're currently running a Sharp 4000 lumen projector (not HD). What would the fl be for that - about 2-3?

Yes it's only PowerPoint & DVD. The projector always stays in the same place - tabletop in the booth.

If I moved it forward, outside of the booth, ceiling mounted, I could possibly get it to 40' from the screen. Looking at the Christie listed above, how much of an increase in fl would that produce?

BTW - quoted price on the Christie + 1.5-1.8:1 lens is $18,000. Is this a worthwhile upgrade or are we going to be scratching our heads saying "we spent how much and it's still not bright enough?"

I recommend doing some of your own research at Projectors, Projector Reviews, LCD Projectors, Home Theater DLP Projectors at ProjectorCentral.com so that you can see what is out there. I doubt that you would be happy with 7-8fl so you may want to consider projecting a smaller image or going with a brighter projector. To stay within your price range, you may have to consider not going with "full HD" but go with WXGA which will provide you with 720p.

In my opinion, single-chip DLP projectors don't appear as bright as the stated output. I have compared in a side by side shoot-out, a 8000 lumen single-chip to a 7000 lumen three-chip and the latter seemed brighter. However, a single-chip DLP prices comparably with LCD projectors for the budget minded.

[museav]

Just for comparison, SMPTE recommends 15-17ftL for a cinema with very controlled lighting, a typical auditorium with some general ambient lighting might typically want more like 30-50ftL, so what you are looking at is way below the image brightness recommended. Also keep in mind that the light off the screen is a function of the screen as well as the projector, many people forget to consider the impact the screen can have on the resulting image. Assuming a unity gain, matte white screen with a 24'-2" high by 43' wide image, I'd probably be looking at wanting around 30,000 to 52,000 lumens from the projector for most typical rooms and around 16,000 to 18,000 lumens for cinema conditions. I won't say that 6,500 lumens won't 'work', but I feel safe saying that it is not something I would recommend. Unless you really need an image that size, I would consider projecting a smaller image.

The difference between your existing projector and the 6,500 lumen Christie would likely be noticeable but not just due to the lumens output. The Christie would be putting all of its output in the 16:9 format image area, if your existing projector is a native 4:3 format then a 16:9 image uses only 75% of the total projection area and output, so a 3,000-4,000 lumen, 4:3 native projector is effectively only a 2,000 to 2,300 lumen projector for a 16:9 format image. There is also the difference between a new lamp and the possibility of a lamp with some hours on it.

The Blu-Ray, HD and related HDCP issues can be confusing. I just found out that any Blu-Ray players produced after 2010 will no longer output an analog HD signal, only SD. And after 2013 they apparently will no longer support any analog outputs. So even though analog would support the HD resolutions, it will not be supported by the Blu-Ray manufacturers in order for them to incorporate HDCP content protection. Then there is that "HD" can mean 720p, 1080i or 1080p and most 'HD' broadcasts and production systems are 720p or 1080i. So do you really need or benefit from 1080p?

Most projector output ratings are fairly accurate, however they can be based on a new lamp and the best case lens, meaning that the output will likely typically be lower in real use.

The general consensus seems to be that DVI is a soon to be dead format, being replaced by HDMI and DisplayPort. This is being driven greatly by Apple and Dell who have both standardized on DisplayPort for new laptops.

FWIW, the Christie projector noted with a lens is probably going to be three to four times your $10,000 budget.

[cvanp]

What venue is this for out of curiosity? Sounds a lot like the aud at Munson Williams... I just saw Every Little Step there the other day, and yeah, a new projector is probably a good idea. The digital projection was badly pixelated and the 35mm projection was small.

Anyway, I've heard great things about Christie projectors. I was doing a little research for an outdoor projection project – totally different than this – but in terms of brand, Christie was the name that kept popping up. Also, I know the Marquee (another Utica reference) uses Christie projectors, but they use the digital film series at 2k res, and that series starts at 12,000 lumens. 6500 lumens might be end up being sufficient, but I think it could end up pushing it.

EDIT: museav said it with far more technical prowess than I did. 6500 lumens probably isn't going to cut it.

[spiwak2005]

Yes it is Munson! Every Little Step was 35mm but it was a Flat print, not Scope. That's just the size of it with our Flat lens. Now Scope fills up our screen nicely. We're at the mercy of what the distributors want to make available to a small film series. The digital projection (for slideshow and trailers) is running off a MiniMac. The distributors aren't making much effort to make the trailers available digitally (unless, like Marquee, you're running everything off hard drives in the projectors) so we're just downloading the HD trailers from iTunes, hence the pixelization.

Problem is justifying the new projector cost versus the amount of times we show DVD's. We do 1 movie per week with 4 screenings. Generally it's only 1 film every 2 months that comes on DVD simply based on availability from the distributors. Then a couple months ago we got stuck with 3 DVD's in a row so the discussion of upgrading came up again.

Latest quote was $13k for a Christie LW650 with a lens. For our throw and full screen size, this would give us 13fl. Granted it's only WXGA, but it still seems like a huge step up in brightness and resolution from what we have.