Multiple video screens

[cvanp]

Hey all,

hopefully I can explain this well.

I was recently appointed the Set Designer for a production of Rent. One of the big ideas going in is that we'll be using a lot of projection.

Based on the preliminary "dreams" for the set, there might be anywhere between 5 and 10 distinct projectors operating at a time.

What those images are for:

Basically in our preliminary dreams, we have 5 (at most, 3 at least) giant industrial windows that will be RP'd on, with images of the environment. Because they'll be RP'd through the window, they don't have to look particularly crisp or nice.

At the end when Mark showcases his film, that obviously has to be projection. As the film starts again with the Finale, we want to bath the audience in projection as well. We figure we can get away with 4-5 projectors to cover the audience and the majority of the theatre's walls in light, if we position carefully. At that point, all the images are the same.

Because of the quality of projectors we have, projecting onto the audience is less for making the image visible, but to have shadow and light swirling over the audience, making them a part of the film. We know it won't be great quality already, and that's ok.

My concerns:

My biggest concern is that with that many projectors needing to be run, how the heck do we do it in a way that can be synced up and driven by one person to minimize problems? And really, what are the technical challenges that I don't know?

My most preliminary understanding of this is that we would need a super powerful computer with about 6 graphics cards with VGA out (some of those would double, for the projection on the audience which is all the same). But that just seems absolutely insane, and altogether impossible to pull off.

Another concern is budget. I'm only willing to take $1k out of the budget for this, but I can definitely find other sources of money for this through fundraising and such.

TO SUMMARIZE, what I kind of am looking to learn:

1. How would projecting to this many surfaces work?
2. What type of software/hardware would that require?
3. How much would it cost?

Thanks so much for your help! I know this is a big challenge but I am really committed to going the extra mile to make it happen, even if it means selling my soul to afford the appropriate equipment .



EDIT: Should I be looking into media servers? The only one I'm really familiar with is the Hippotizer, and it only has two outputs. As I said already we're looking for more.

Additional thoughts: I could probably do it with 3 outputs: 1 for the back upstage industrial window, 1 to be split among the stage left and right windows (however many there are) and 1 that would be designated as the end documentary video feed (to be projected onto a sheet or whatever out of the projector practical and onto the audience). That might simplify things.

[sk8rsdad]

It is possible to rear project onto multiple screens with a single projector as long as the space between the screens is masked with an opaque material. Since you're projecting through a wall of windows you may get away with a single projector.

QLab and an iMac 20 can drive 2 projectors without any additional hardware. QLab can drive up to 8 projectors but you need additional hardware.

[cvanp]

Unfortunately no, and even if so there are definitely 6 different "areas" that need projection - even with the duplication, we couldn't break it down to two distinct outputs (three is possible, but not two).


One thing I just found was a program called Wings Platinum, which would seem to offer functionality I need, if I provide multiple computers to act as slaves to the primary program (would this also help share the processing load, so it doesn't need to be a super crazy computer?).

Thanks again!



Edit: I guess with something like QLab, the question I have is could it trigger other computers? The problem with using a computer as opposed to an all-inclusive media server solution is that we don't have a box with the required outputs, and I suspect it wouldn't be cheap to build one.

Actually, suppose we were to build a Mac Pro with three video cards (are there enough PCI/e slots available? I should look that up) and just drive off QLab? Qlab is ideal because we all know Qlab in the department.

[fredo]

I just did a show with two projectors and rented two Folsom Presentation Pro's. Screw the graphic's cards, way to unstable for that many screens.

Your operator will be doing the equivalent of playing a piano if you do it live, but you could program to do some triggering. Anyway, you'd need to video D/I everything that will be on more than one screen at a time. But that will be, without a doubt, the most stable method of getting what you will need.

8 presets and one logo screen.

Nice. Now If I can just afford to purchase like 5 of these I'd be set. (they ain't cheep)

[cvanp]

A pure hardware solution like that is definitely the option. The only reason I'm really more interested in a system like QLab is because there will be a lot of looping video.

I think I can really narrow it down to only three outputs (that are split and amplified along the way) - that would make it a lot easier.

I'll look into this though, and bring it to our feasibility meeting next week!

[fredo]

Just be careful because those "hardware" pieces like the presentation pro are not cheap to rent cause they retail at 7G+. And that's not even the high Def Version. I'm not sure that they are even making the standard def one, but you will have to make sure on that.

Like I said. I just want like 2 or 3 of these things and I'd be in business!

[ruinexplorer]

I think what might help is if you could tell us what you have available and we can help you find a solution to make it work. $1000 isn't a large budget for certain pieces that you might need. I hope that you already have all the projectors and cabling that you need. You have mentioned the video DAs, do you have those already as well? Are you doing a long production where it is more feasible to buy the equipment or a short production where you could probably rent what you need? There are several options out there, many of them are not inexpensive, but I think we can come up with some solutions based on what you have at your disposal.

[cvanp]

We have all the projectors we need (well, we in the department don't, but we'll be able to scrounge them all up from across campus).

We have probably a decent amount of cabling, but I'd suspect to make the runs we'll need to make, we'll have to buy a chunk more.

We don't have amplifiers (that I know of offhand, although our Center for the Arts production staff probably has a lot of goodies that I can dig into).

$1000 isn't a lot, definitely, but I am anticipating I'll be able to arrange some fundraising, and ideally double or triple that.

This is not a long term production - only 5 performances - so we love rentals.

I'm really looking at the Mac Pro as an option. I know there's a question of reliability but with the built in graphics card that has two DVI outputs and then an additional graphics card that has two more, convert them all to DVI and then split/amplify as necessary, and drive them all in QLab. I think it'd be expensive, yes, but it'd also be a long term investment into future projection.

Also, as of now I plan to run the projection myself, no matter how we do it. Unless one of my trusted friends can get on the show call, I don't want to leave this to someone who might screw it up. If it gets messed up, it's going to be my fault.

Chris

[SHARYNF]

Here is another take on this:
IMO there are two ways to go, one is a high end concert/production media server that costs a fortune and needs to be all programmed, and is definitely what is used in High production value productions. BUT Again IMHO simply not practical for just a few shows


OR what I do for these type of productions is pretty much a low tech deal

I Have a bunch (about a dozen) identical projectors (I happen to have selected a while a go a Sharp Notevision xg c40xu svideo/vga 1024x768 native projector

I then have (yeah I know definitely low rent stuff) another bunch of Numark VJ01 uinits (mainly because they will play back computer based video and have a build in LCD display have playback speed control and also basic cuing


I then assign projector to screen area, and make up specific DVD;s for each dvd player. Most of the time for this more visual stuff I run S video. If I need to have switching and NO effects I go with a simple Panasonic SW 104 or if I need more effects I typically use a Panasonic MX50.

I use either extron or Kramer s video distribution


If I need elaborate multi screen covering one image I happen to have an ex military RGB spectrum computer wall device with takes multiple VGA inputs or if I need to have multiple images all on one screen I have another RGB spectrum unit that lets me put multiple sources any where on the screen. For simple stills or more fixed backgrounds I typically can wip something up in power point.

I have done a lot of rear projection but also have recently been working with a combination of front projection on a canvas that has been painted with Wildfire invisible UV reactive paint, and some UV lights. This way I have the ability to add projection along with painted scene but control it via the combination of UV and Projection.

Sharyn

[NickJones]

I saw a gadget on a VJ site that let you use a piece of hardware that plugged into the VGA of your standard video card, and it then broke out into 4 or 5 VGA outputs, this showed up on your computer as one massive screen with an insanely wide resolution, despite the fact it was actually a number of screens. This could be an option.

Alternately, you could get a whole stack of USB video cards, they will set you back about $100 each for a middle of the range one.

Nick