All in 1 Linux show control system

[jasonaherbert]

I've spent the last hour looking on the forum to find something pointing to something I'm looking for, and no luck...so I'm starting a thread.

What i want to do:
-Run sound cues (up to 8 channels out)
-Run lighting cues
-Run video cues
-all by pressing [space bar]

oh...and did I mention all this on a Linux box running Ubuntu 64bit?
yeah, that's the problem. I'm new to Linux. I know its the most solid OS out there, and most of the programs are free for it.

I was running Show Cue System on a Vista machine (laptop), and loved it...sadly SCS does not run on Linux. After contacting them they suggested I use Wine to emulate Windows but no such luck.

I'm trying to get MagicQ working but something just isn't playing nice.

Ardour isn't playing nice with JACK, and JACK isn't playing nice at all.

If I had the time (and patience) I would learn how to make my own program, and make something super sexy that would make everyone fall in love with me...and so on, and so forth. But, alas, I do not.

My current set-up at the theatre is 24 dimmers, but I'm looking at getting some LED PARs to permanently mount as backlight. So I need something that could handle the full 512, and a colour selection wheel would be nice.

Any suggestions?

[DuckJordan]

it sounds like you want an extremely complicated piece of software that your trying to place on a free op system.... two things that come to mind...

Light people (love money)
Sound People (love money)

and a third that came up as i was typing

Light people do not like sound people (in most cases)

so the likely hood of something to be cheap or free or even cost effective doing both lights and sound from one system is extraordinarily rare.

Not to mention my feelings on allowing one computer to run both lights and sound for a show (even if its a DJ show). Personally its one area where i like to separate and conquer sort of thing.

[themuzicman]

Why do you want it to be Linux?

I love rolling into places with my computer, plugging in QLab and a midi interface, and taking control of the projections and lighting in a matter of seconds. Just saying.

What you are asking for is extremely complicated, and most places aren't going to be programming for linux because it is a niche audience. You're going to have to stick with Mac or PC for what you want. But seriously, QLab does everything you want.

[Anvilx]

Seriously, it seems like the problem is the OS. What is preventing you from just running vista?

[zuixro]

Seriously, it seems like the problem isn't the actual software, it is the OS. What is preventing you from just running vista?

Dangerous question.


I will restrain myself.

[KeepOnTruckin]

Seriously, it seems like the problem is the OS. What is preventing you from just running vista?

Dangerous question.


I will restrain myself.

Compromise: Upgrade to Windows XP.

[themuzicman]

Compromise: Upgrade to Windows XP.

Best compromise ever.

That being said, I ran the Windows 7 beta for like 6 months and loved it (and I'm an mac person)

[epimetheus]

I would not recommend XP to anybody these days. Windows 7 is mature enough at this point and XP support is going to be waining off soon. I would not start a new project on XP, it would limit the lifetime of the project.

Oh, and don't touch Vista with a 10 foot pole...

[DuckJordan]

+1 to dump vista its garbage. I am running both xp and 7 and i find 7 a lot more responsive and user friendly as well as program friendly... XP has a few work horse ops but the 7 emulator for the 32 bit programs generally runs them better than an xp system.

[Dionysus]

+1 to Throw Vista into the trash heap.

Haven't given 7 a go yet, don't have the money.

However the Ubuntu distro of Linux is "Sexy, Safe, and Stable". and easy to develop on. It really is the perfect platform for show control, however yes all the big companies don't want to build anything for it since it is for a small market and there is a lot of pressure for "open source, open mind" on Linux.

If I had the necessary skills, the tool-set I'd undertake developing such types of software for Linux distros however I don't. And most of the people who do are usually too busy with other things.
I know people who'd be willing to pay for it, however one of the beautiful things on Linux is Open Source.

If software akin to this was made open source, than other people would be free to further enhance and modify it to suit their needs. To publish different takes, and really develop some really sweet software.

I personally am weary of having the SAME computer controlling EVERYTHING directly. The idea of multiple machines linked with MSC or something is nicer as if one computer goes down the rest of your systems are still operational.
But for some instances it sure would be nice to have a computer control your entire show (like a small travelling show for instance).

I do seem to think there is DMX control software for Linux, I remember seeing it somewhere. Can't recall. I currently don't have a computer with enough HDD space to dual-boot (had my main machine fry, HDD and all). Perhaps one was MagicQ? Don't recall.

[jasonaherbert]

addressing:
why Linux?
because it is extremely stable. i tried Windows7 64bit, but i wanted to break things around me due to it. there was so much that was wrong with it.
i tried loading XP but it wouldn't load at all. (i do prefer XP, because i'm old school like that)

I stay away from Mac, only due to cost. i had $1000 to build a computer, and i was able to do so by buying the parts from Newegg.com. i don't think i could get a stick of RAM from MAC for that cost.

I have now installed MagicQ and am currently playing with it. its pretty fun. i can do lighting and video.


About Lighting and Sound guys not playing well with each other:
if that were true i'd of shot myself in the head, because i'm all of it.

I'm the Tech Director, Lighting Designer, Sound Designer/Engineer, Master Elect, Carp...all of it.
so the easier i can make running a show, the better off i'll be.

the current (and hopefully soon to change) set up is:
Show Cue System for sound (doesn't run on Linux)
and the EXT SmartFade (please someone take this and use it as a boat anchor) for lighting.
so hitting Space Bar with one hand, and using my +5 in DEXTERITY to move faders with the other hand. this limits me. hell, for 10 months i ran a Road Hog Full Boar and i could make things look pretty. and i've work with all the programmable ETC desks, i really miss having split timed (TIMED) cues.

so those are my reasons for choosing the system i am currently running.

and i'll settle for getting the $1,500 external controller for MagicQ to run lights, and press [Space] for sound, that's fine.

so i guess i'll have to find a sound program now.

[DuckJordan]

Well the easiest way you could do it would be using the linux computer to send MIDI commands to both your light board and your sound board and possibly another computer to trigger the sounds. That way you can just use one space bar...

Basicly from what i understand of your most recent post is that its not so much as combining the computers but rather controlling them from one location at the same time.

[mitt10tim]

If you can stand to wait another year, I was plan on writing exactly the piece of software you are talking about for my thesis.

[Kingcaffeine]

"i don't think i could get a stick of RAM from MAC for that cost"
Not true. A fast Mac mini can be had for $600. A USB->DMX dongle for $60-100. Qlab. Run Quartz Composer and make a patch for audio (if you really have to, Qlab'll do it though). Problem solved. If you really need to run Linux, get VMware and have at it in OSX. Or boot the Mini to Ubuntu. Or run W7, or......

It sounds like you're trying to build a staircase with a screwdriver and a planer and you really need a decent hammer and a sharp handsaw.

Or wait a year and mitt10tim can make some money. 2 cents and soapbox done.

[NickVon]

Best compromise ever.

That being said, I ran the Windows 7 beta for like 6 months and loved it (and I'm an mac person)

Even Better compromise Windows 7 x64. Or you you have a a mr money bags in your pocket, a Macbook Pro and Qlab

I've been extremely happy with "Mutliplay" audio control software developed by AVDDave, here on the forums. http://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au...play/index.php Fantastic fairly feature rich free program.

It can send telnet and midi commands, (admittedly i haven't played with those features, but their in there) You can keep your Go button somewhere on screen with the program minimized while you are perhaps running your MagicQ software for lights. Just to button click then?

[joeyfergie]

It can send telnet and midi commands, (admittedly i haven't played with those features, but their in there) You can keep your Go button somewhere on screen with the program minimized while you are perhaps running your MagicQ software for lights. Just to button click then?

We've been using Multiplay at my theatre for about 2 years now, with it also controlling our lighting system via MIDI for almost a year. Despite initial programming in our lighting console (ETC Express 48/96), it is very easy to use.

What i want to do:
-Run sound cues (up to 8 channels out)
-Run lighting cues
-Run video cues
-all by pressing [space bar]

Multiplay doesn't run on Linux, (we have it both on an XP and 7 machines), but we currently have it hooked up to output 8 channels of audio (2 internal sound cards, and 2 USB sound cards), runs our lighting via a USB to MIDI converter (MIDI activates Macros in the lighting console, which activate cues). The program is starting to get support for video, I am testing it out now to implement next year for our lobby displays. And all of it is done by pressing a space bar.

If you haven't found another solution this would be worth buying a copy of Windows.

[iccelou91]

A friend and I have been thinking about open source show control systems for linux for a while. We've already put a decent amount of work into reliable systems for audio cues. It's nowhere near a release, but linux show control isn't that far-fetched. It just hasn't really been done as of yet.
Well-built linux show control would be incredibly portable, versatile, fast and (hopefully) reliable. And cheap. I forgot to mention cheap.

[plutosams]

A friend and I have been thinking about open source show control systems for linux for a while. We've already put a decent amount of work into reliable systems for audio cues. It's nowhere near a release, but linux show control isn't that far-fetched. It just hasn't really been done as of yet.
Well-built linux show control would be incredibly portable, versatile, fast and (hopefully) reliable. And cheap. I forgot to mention cheap.

As a stage manager who runs everything off of a Linux system this is something I am very interested in. Right now I am forced to dual-boot Windows in order to use Multiplay (unfortunately does not work under Wine). Although I have next to no programming experience I would interested in helping out any way I can. I would use something like this on a near daily basis (in rehearsals, performances, etc.) Even just a sound cue system would be better than what I have available now.

[echnaret]

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. I've been using Xubuntu for years. While I have found various lighting and sound show control programs, it seems like they're usually buggy and have poorly designed user interfaces. In general, lighting and sound contol is a niche market, and those who make quality programs usually don't want to give them away for free.

I'm a bit of a programmer (I'm a comp sci/theatre double major, and I think I still remember a bit of Java..), and I'd be willing to help test/debug programs that anyone else is working on.

[Anvilx]

I think vvvv can do all this but the learning curve seems really steep. From what I can tell It is basically a show oriented max msp sort of program.

[yanterrien]

I started to write a show-control set of components built around a Tomcat 7 server.
The idea is to use the new Websocket protocol to communicate between a web browser and a show-control server with devices plugged into it.
The user interfaces can be easily written by HTML5/Javascript programmers and my part is to write the server side code in java.
The show-control server can run on any OS : Windows, Linux, Mac... as it is a Tomcat server.
I have already added TCP/IP, Serial and MIDI, but it is still an alpha version, and it is not tested. I am currently working on implementing Artnet, but I am not very motivated these days so I am looking for people to collaborate to this project.
You can see details here : Yan Show Control: ShowControlSocket
( write to me on gmail, at yan.terrien )

[DuckJordan]

My suggestion for your system, as far as programming goes, is stay away from web coding for this. HTML 5 is an improvement over the older versions but still not stable enough nor latency controlled as this would require. Javascript would be virtually useless for the same reasons. Why not do this in C++ or C#?

[cpf]

My suggestion for your system, as far as programming goes, is stay away from web coding for this. HTML 5 is an improvement over the older versions but still not stable enough nor latency controlled as this would require. Javascript would be virtually useless for the same reasons. Why not do this in C++ or C#?

C++ requires extensive work in porting onto every platform you want to use it on, C# just plain doesn't work on things that aren't Windows (or, ugh, mono). HTML5, on the other hand, works to varying degrees on any modern web-capable device or browser. I'm not sure where your prejudice against JavaScript is coming from, nowadays it is very fast (on browsers that aren't IE) and is just as inherently reliable as the platform it's running on, just the same as C# or any compiled language. WebSockets remove the latency concern normally present with XHR/AJAX/"Pull" based messaging systems, as they give JavaScript direct control over the underlying socket - it won't get any faster than that.

[yanterrien]

My suggestion for your system, as far as programming goes, is stay away from web coding for this. HTML 5 is an improvement over the older versions but still not stable enough nor latency controlled as this would require. Javascript would be virtually useless for the same reasons. Why not do this in C++ or C#?

I have already writtten show-control softwares in C++ and C# (I am one of the author of Medialon Manager).
My purpose with ShowControlSocket is to study the possibility to open show-control world to people who know only few of programming languages.
Many people know how to create web pages with html and javascript.
The hard coding part is not on that side, it is on the server side, and I write this part, in java : I eventually look for partners to help me to write this.
Show control "drivers" are simple javascript scripts on the client side : I also look for partners to help me to write these.
It will require a little bit more knowledge to write these drivers so there is 3 levels of programming : java on server, javascript for "drivers" and javasript/html for user pages.
I am aware that HTML5 is not officially released and that it is not equally implemented in browsers, but it is not an "improvement" as you say, it is a major change and the Websocket protocol is very interresting for us because it gives the possibility to have a much more accurate communication between browser and server as it is cleaner than the fat http protocol. ( see WebSocket - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )
I don't pretend that we can write a fantastic show-control software on that way, but it can be a useful open-source base for simple application, and who knows ?
On verra bien.

[SanTai]

yanterrien, it sounds like a great initiative!

I am sadly no programmer(except some basic knowledge of Java and Matlab), but to me it sounds like a good way to make it possible for good open source solutions. Maybe this is the start of what AJ Pen talks about in this interview, but open source.

ENTECH INTECH - Extended Linkin Park Interview with AJ Pen - YouTube

Am I understanding you correctly if I believe you create "the base"(API?) for communication with the real world(MIDI, LTC, DMX, Serial)? And other programmers can create custom "plug-ins" with GUI for having a timeline, cue's, midi/MSC control, dmx control etc.?

[yanterrien]

yanterrien, it sounds like a great initiative!
Am I understanding you correctly if I believe you create "the base"(API?) for communication with the real world(MIDI, LTC, DMX, Serial)? And other programmers can create custom "plug-ins" with GUI for having a timeline, cue's, midi/MSC control, dmx control etc.?

I think that there are 3 levels of show-control technicians.
The first level is purely artistic, a.e a light designer expressing his tremendous ideas.
The second level is the operator level, a technician with a good knowledge of specific softwares and specific devices.
The third level is a programmer level, an engineer writing special plugins or routines to materialize things that can't be done with existing devices.

In big shows, people can afford to employ 3 people for the 3 levels, but in small shows these 3 people are all in one.
This is why I was thinking that it could be a good thing to open the door of deep show-control programming to people knowing simple languages like javascript and html.
But, in fact, I am not sure to go on writing this project if I don't find partners to help me.

And, besides, show-control is a small market, and I think that the only open-source projects that last are the ones created for big markets, unfortunately.

[telmnstr]

I've never had great luck with Linux in terms of the DMX512 apps. Even midi sequencers seemed to crash often, and the way jack enumerated devices made it impossible to script.

One tip if you hate Windows but want to use one application is Windows XPe and Windows Embedded 7. You can rip out everything and build a single purpose system, if you want something like an appliance.

When that fails, go Mac.