Building a Lock for Flyrail

[TheGuruat12]

We want a locking system on our flyrail, one that prevents orchestra students from moving it (which I have caught them doing before). They don't have any idea how dangerous it can be because they see us use it and it looks simple, so they figure they'll have some fun.

Our VP of facilities and operations has given us the go ahead to build a lock onto it, so I was wondering if any of you had advice on the best way to do it.

This is basically our system, pretty common type, and the goal would be to prevent the rope locks from being lowered.

File:SWHS locking rail.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My idea was to have a bar, welded to a hinge on the flat part of the rail, stick up at a 60 degree or so angle, with a flat piece of steel vertically at the end. There would be a hole in this piece of steel. There would be several of these down the length of the rail. When locked, there would be three long square steel tubes put in between them, padlocked through the hole at each arm. The hinges would come into play when it was unlocked. Without the crosspieces holding the arms up by bracing against the rope locks, the hinges would be free to open towards the wall behind the rail, and thus the arms would swing backwards over the rail and hang, out of the way. That way, nobody kills themselves on protruding pieces of metal.

Thoughts?

[derekleffew]

What brand is your system, and have you asked the manufacturer?

[TheGuruat12]

I'm not at school until Monday, so I can't remember the brand, but I already checked out the rope locks to see if there's any way to put a long-tongue padlock on each one, and that's a no-go. The locks don't have any extra flange on each side to drill holes in either.

[MPowers]

The simplest way is to just replace the locks. All the manufacturers, Thern, H&H, JR Clancy, Tiffin, et.al. make rope locks with padlock capability today, and can provide them with holes to match the drill pattern on your rail. Second easiest way (and probably cheapest) is a cage with a locking door. If either of these ideas interests you, contact me and I can elaborate on pros, cons and costs.

[techieman33]

At my old high school there was angle iron in 10' sticks that was hinged and would fold up to keep the locks from being dropped. Then there was a hole on each end for a lock to pass through.

[TheGuruat12]

At my old high school there was angle iron in 10' sticks that was hinged and would fold up to keep the locks from being dropped. Then there was a hole on each end for a lock to pass through.

Same concept as what I thought of, and the important thing is that it would be CHEAP. Only $150 for the steel, and both myself and another on crew already have welders.

[LavaASU]

Same concept as what I thought of, and the important thing is that it would be CHEAP. Only $150 for the steel, and both myself and another on crew already have welders.

What about using a zip-tie around the rope and lock? Snip when you need to use, replace during dark time (and orchestra concerts apparently) when you expect issues. It wouldn't totally prevent, but assuming there is not a cutting implement and spare zip ties sitting around, it should dissuade. Depending on the type of rope you do need to be careful about not cutting into the rope too much with the zip ties if you go this route. I've seen this done temporary on linesets that we didn't want moved for a given show and it worked pretty well.

[TheGuruat12]

I hadn't thought of that. We want something a little more secure, because we're talking about moving nine linesets and then locking, but that's an intriguing idea, if nothing else for when we don't want a certain lineset moved accidentally during a show.

[jglodeklights]

Similar idea to LavaASU, but a little more secure that might work is padlocks through trim chain tightly wrapped around the rope and rope lock.

Edit, get a longer piece and wrap it around the architecture the lock is on as well so they really can't just lift it up.

[TheGuruat12]

Similar idea to LavaASU, but a little more secure that might work is padlocks through trim chain tightly wrapped around the rope and rope lock.

Edit, get a longer piece and wrap it around the architecture the lock is on as well so they really can't just lift it up.

This is how I lock one lineset that people touch all the time, but it would take too long to lock and unlock. Thanks though!

[Sony]

This is how I lock one lineset that people touch all the time, but it would take too long to lock and unlock. Thanks though!

I just had an idea, why not drill a hole in the lock handle and then padlock the handle to the handline? Basically it's the same thing as the red lock ring but it goes through the handle instead of around it. It would prevent the handle from being unlocked.

[FMEng]

I just had an idea, why not drill a hole in the lock handle and then padlock the handle to the handline? Basically it's the same thing as the red lock ring but it goes through the handle instead of around it. It would prevent the handle from being unlocked.

I'm not a rigger or a mechanical engineer, but it seems to me that drilling a hole in the handle may weaken it and cause it to fail. There is a reason that those devices are forged/cast for strength. Modifying anything used to control overhead loads isn't a good idea.

[Sony]

I'm not a rigger or a mechanical engineer, but it seems to me that drilling a hole in the handle may weaken it and cause it to fail. There is a reason that those devices are forged/cast for strength. Modifying anything used to control overhead loads isn't a good idea.

You really think a 1/4 hole in a 1 inch thick and 1/2 wide piece to steel is going to significantly weaken it? Especially when that piece of steel is not a weight bearing piece of equipment, opening and closing the locks should only require a maximum of about 10lbs of force. If you use cutting oil and drill the hole in the thickest part of the metal, I highly doubt it would break, forged steel is not brittle like cast iron. Especially if you drilled the hole in the very top of the handle...there is no way the entire handle will fall off from one hole in the tip of the handle. In fact many older style rope locks that aren't plasti-dipped have holes already in the tip of the handle and most of those are cast iron, not forged steel like newer ones.

[joeb]

Not to sound old and curmudgeonly, but isn't this is an issue that can be prevented by oversight? I would assume/hope there is an adult responsible for the orchestra and/or your space. Outlining the potential hazards and consequences of untrained users on the flyrail should persuade a rational adult (especially one with a license for instructing children) to make sure this kind of behavior does not continue. If that doesn't get through, I think the VP of facilities you mentioned might be higher up and capable of persuading the adult in charge to make sure the unauthorized behavior stops.

Just my two cents...

[Sony]

Not to sound old and curmudgeonly, but isn't this is an issue that can be prevented by oversight? I would assume/hope there is an adult responsible for the orchestra and/or your space. Outlining the potential hazards and consequences of untrained users on the flyrail should persuade a rational adult (especially one with a license for instructing children) to make sure this kind of behavior does not continue. If that doesn't get through, I think the VP of facilities you mentioned might be higher up and capable of persuading the adult in charge to make sure the unauthorized behavior stops.

Just my two cents...

As someone who works in a school...I can tell you that this is nigh impossible. There would be one or maybe two teachers conducting the orchestra, and you simply cannot be everywhere at once. You would have to have one teacher assigned specifically just to make sure kids don't screw around which would never happen. Yes, if the teacher see's a student screwing with something they shouldn't, then something will be said, but kids always find ways to be stealthy about things they know they shouldn't do. Also kids can find ways into rooms by themselves even if they are locked, I know when I was in high school I actually could pick locks or find ways into rooms without a key. I was able to get into the Photography room whenever I wanted because I could slide my student ID in the door crack and release the latch. I could get into locked classrooms and other students dorm rooms because the keys were so similar that if you jiggled your key while carefully sliding it in and out you could unlock someone elses door. Student's...especially I've found that mainly Male students will find a way to do anything you tell them not to do...it's just a fact of life and growing up.

All locks do is keep honest people honest, if he wants to lock it, then thats one less thing he or any other teacher has to worry about. I often lock our fly rail at NNHS whenever we leave for a long break, it's just one less thing to worry about.

[chausman]

I just had an idea, why not drill a hole in the lock handle and then padlock the handle to the handline? Basically it's the same thing as the red lock ring but it goes through the handle instead of around it. It would prevent the handle from being unlocked.

You wouldn't even have to go around the handline. As long as the ring couldn't be moved off the handle or rope, there *shouldn't* be a way for the line to be moved unless the orchestra was re-weighting the arbor to force it to move while locked. It would require a lot of padlocks though. My HS has 42 linesets, so if you wanted to lock all of them, it would be $482.48+applicable tax for this one from Lowes(more if you wanted to go around the purchase line) and about half an hour of removing locks if you wanted to have everything unlocked for some reason.

[MarshallPope]

For something a bit different, what about using something like this cable alarm? LockAlarm: Secures and Alarms any large items from theft in seconds [E TIP, Inc.] You could find some way to place the cable so that the locking rings couldn't be raised, and if someone tried to move it the alarm wouldn't go off. I think that, in your situation, a deterrent might be just as effective as locks.

[lightingtek]

I can't say I've been in a situation where the line-sets being locked would be a problem, but I can foresee situations where if the person(s) with a key were not around, it could get dangerous. Especially in theatres with students who are often messing around with things they shouldn't. Is there an OSHA regulation on whether or not locking the rails is allowed?

Say you set it up so your upstage lines are locked with one angle iron, and your downstage with another. You unlock the downstage ones to fly in your electric on line 15, and after removing 7 or 8 insturments, go to fly it out forgetting that you haven't gone up to the load rail to remove a few weights. As you fly it out slowly (by whatever means, you just know you have to keep going because bringing it back in is too heavy now) you realize you're about to hit the empty baton on line 16 (that was only flown out midway because, well, why not) because one of your par-can's got pointed straight upstage while you were adjusting. So you lock line 15, but its so out of weight that it is slipping through the lock. So you just hold the line with your left hand, and go to move line 16 with your right, and uh oh, your keyring has been borrowed by a student that needed to go unlock the spot booth!

Far fetched I know, but some "building and grounds"-safety oriented-memorizing codes-always quoting egress route rules-buerocrat will come up with a scenario like this one and shut down an entire program because they don't understand how theatre works sometimes.

And as someone who also works in a school, I say, get curmudgeony! Tell the orchestra instructors that if they can't keep their students focused on what they need to be doing, perhaps the rehearsal in your space is wasting your time as well as his. And if they're doing it during a production, perhaps they don't need to be in orchestra as much as they do special needs classes.

[DuckJordan]

Lightingtek thats when you lock your rail you are moving, Compress the lineset to itself, and make sure you don't let the fly key go anywhere but on you. Even this situation should never happen as that key should only ever be on you at anytime, even if there is another key to go unlock the spot booth. Not to mention the spot booth can wait the 5 minutes it takes to get a line set adjusted and locked back up. This is part of the Piss poor planning issues that come into play. The safety issue in this situation still leans towards be able to lock the line sets if a par can gets bumped by a batten its not too big of an issue. Thats why we have C-clamps and Safety cables. Pain in the butt? yeah, but its still better than allowing someone who has no idea what they are doing to bring in and out heavy battens on top of themselves or other people.

[tolienbosheit]

If I remember correctly, my High School put a locked cage around our fly system (including the circular staircase to the Grid/Catwalk system).

[MPowers]

I can't say I've been in a situation where the line-sets being locked would be a problem, but I can foresee situations where if the person(s) with a key were not around, it could get dangerous. Especially in theatres with students who are often messing around with things they shouldn't. Is there an OSHA regulation on whether or not locking the rails is allowed?

It is highly unlikely that locked linesets could lead to a dangerous situation. A very inconvenient one due to poor planning, yes.

As for an OSHA (or any other regulating body) regulation, there is no section, code or regulation requiring or forbidding locking individual, groups or the entire locking rail. All the major manufacturers, Clancy, H&H, Tiffin, Thern et. al. offer versions of their rope lock that can be locked. There are versions that have the lock built in and linesets can be keyed in groups or individually keyed, mastered or combinations of the above. Everyone offers a version that will accept a padlock. The other alternative that is fairly common is a cage around the fly rail that can be locked preventing access by unauthorized personnel.

The scenario you outlined could only happen with poor planning or poor work practices coupled with poor decision making, or all of the above.

First. on a full crew call to load/unload battens, any/all locked linesets should be unlocked before beginning the call or the key should be in the possession of the crew member running the rail. Second, The standard rule for loading/unloading battens under any condition, crew staffing and available number of people working the call is: Load the batten first, unload it last. That way if you forget something, it is to take the instruments off and you find you can't fly the batten out as it is too heavy.

Your scenario also seems to indicate only a single person working on stage. Never work alone. A stage is potentially a VERY dangerous place. Working alone can result in a severe injury or fatality. If you must work solo, have an observer, a watcher, so IF something happens, help can be called for. Last year a Yale grad student was killed when she was working alone. The investigation indicated the incident would have been non fatal if a second person had been on site. Don't take chances. No show or project is worth it.

[venuetech]

A short 1/8 vinyl coated aircraft cable with two eyes goes between the break handle and purchase line, crossing over the lock ring. bring one eye under the break assembly to meet the other eye. put the two eyes and the lock ring into the padlock.
this requires no modification to the break or the rail. It could be done with a short length of chain.
The idea is to secure the lock ring close to the break assembly, preventing normal operation of the break handle.

You may need to heat shrink any sharp edges to prevent chafing of the purchase line for long term use

This should be properly stored well away from the rail during normal operations. There should be clear signage detailing that the locks are not to be used during normal rail operations.

Any modification you make will likely be there for the next twenty + years so it had better be VERY well thought out. or it will likely cause great distress in the future.

[museav]

Far fetched I know, but some "building and grounds"-safety oriented-memorizing codes-always quoting egress route rules-buerocrat will come up with a scenario like this one and shut down an entire program because they don't understand how theatre works sometimes.

Not so far fetched, if anything goes wrong in any way for anything related to the rigging then the insurer comes in and says "you modified it" and denies all coverage. Easy to prove you modified it, perhaps much more difficult to prove that a modification did not in any way potentially impact anything else. It doesn't even really matter if it did affect anything as long as it could. So unless you are qualified to assess the impact of any modifications and have the authority to accept the related liability, I would avoid any solution that could in any way be seen by others as potentially impacting the rigging itself.

[lightingtek]

Just to be sure my reputation is not sullied, I have never been in the scenario that I mentioned. In fact I said it was far fetched, for all of the aspects of that scenario to happen at the same time, the universe would have to be taking a crap on me that day.

I'm not a dimwit, I plan for all forseeable circumstances, and because I think on the fly and outside of the box, quite a few un-forseeable ones. As far as ALWAYS having someone in the theatre while I'm working, that's just not always possible, and anyone who has run a high school program, or even a small community theatre (both of which I have) would agree. I'm not going to have someone come in just to babysit me. Wuld I prefer it if there were always someone there to help? You bet! Is that always going o happen? Hell no! Does that mean I don't finish the set? I wouldn't be employeed for very long that way.

How about the suggestion that I was given IRL when I mentioned this thread. As long as you ensure your lines are properly weighted, even if the unwanted orchestra student does unlock the line, nothing will happen until they pull on the rope.

[Toffee]

What about an eye bolt in the wall at either end of the rail, have a piece of 1/8" aircraft cable that reaches all the way from either eye bolt and attach one end of it to the eye bolt in the wall that is US, weave the aircraft cable thru the locking rings til you get to the DS eye bolt and padlock the aircraft cable to the eye bolt. When running the show you can leave it coiled under the eye upstage and it is easy and cheap to install, you just have to make sure the eyes are low enough that you cant just move the rings up and over the brake handle.

[DuckJordan]

I like this idea, Doesn't require any modification to the fly's and just requires some length of Aircraft cable, two eye bolts, and a couple proper terminations...

[65535]

Find a lockout tag that fits your specific brand of rope locks, there shouldn't be one on the market that doesn't have something that'll work.

Check out H & H Specialties, they make the type of rope lock seen in your Wiki link, the lockout tags fit where a standard lock won't.

[BNEL]

I have two facilities where one has individual ropelocks with padlocks and one with your standard ropelocks. I love my padlocks so much I am getting them for my other facility. I am also a advocate for individual locks. For instance when I have groups in my spaces I do not unlock all the linesets because there are linesets that groups do not need access to like our orchestra shell ceiling linesets. There are certain linesets that certain people do not need to have access to. I also look at locking a rail as the same as lockout/tagout for electrical equipment.

Also since your in your educational institution work with administration and find out if you can use safety money. Majority of education instiutions have money earmarked for safety. This is how I am getting my upgrade. My ropelocks with padlocks are costing me $110 each but they are worth every cent.