Scrim, Cyc, Rear Projection

[Mutch]

Hi Folks,

Totally new to these terms Cyc, Scrim, etc.

I have a small cafetorium theatre in a small rural school. The stage is raised. About 40 ft wide, 30 ft, deep and at least 50 ft high. We are slowly buying equipment. I now have the following:
- Chauvet light board
- 16 LED Par lights pointing over the stage
- Follow Spot (in the balcony)
- a light tree with 4 old style (in the balcony)
- a row of black curtains near the rear of stage and I also painted the concrete wall behind the curtains black.

Now my question, I would like to have different scenes without having to paint scenes. I have no room to put scenery off stage, so I was thinking I could have a white screen or something to project different scenes on. For example, in one scene I could have a night skyline and in the next scene a park in the daytime.

Is this possible? What would you recommend?
Thanks
Dean

[Van]

Hmm this is one of those posts that could go in a bunch of different topics, and while it is basically a multimedia/ projection question it is also a legitimate Scenery question, so I don't think I'm going to move it.
I believe this question could open some reallt interesting doors in the Scenery forum, and here's why;
Many theatres and performing arts groups are moving towards the use of projected scenery, this opens a huge number questions about the efficacy, the value, and quality of these productions.

To get right to the heart of the initial "scenic" question the short answer is, "Yes, you can do that." Now for the specifications of projectors, throw distances, materials for projection surfaces, etc. I woud highly suggest posing those questions in the Multi-media forum. I've got some pretty strong opinions on the se of Projected scenery and I'll be happy to share some of them later but for now I'd like to hear the responses from some other forum members about their experiences with doing just this sort of thing. How well it worked for them, what the costs were, that sort of thing.

[icewolf08]

In theory, yes, you can do projected scenery. However, in most cases you will want to do some kind of rear projection setup. Why? Well if you project from the front and then put actors on stage you are then projecting on actors and creating shadows on your projection surface.

To do rear projection you need to have a pretty significant amount of space behind the projection surface, a bright projector with a good lens, and some decent software to drive the media. You of course also need a good rear projection screen. This is not a job for your AV department's classroom/"multi-media" projectors. You will need something with high output.

On the more economical end of the spectrum, you could try building a couple roll drops or olios. You could then paint drops, and roll them up so that they don't take up too much space.

[seanandkate]

If you're asking whether or not to BUY a scrim or cyc for your venue to make it more flexible, I would buy a cyc first (and make sure that you have the money to actually use it's virtues). I love cyc lighting to set mood and make a stage look really big and 'open' -- a black curtain tends to make a stage feel more compressed. But that could be just me. To use projected scenery well, you'll need a ton of dough and a ton of expertise. What a cyc will allow you to do that you couldn't before with black curtains, is take colour from striplights, act as a target surface for gobos, etc. Need a night skyline? Dark blue cyc wash with building window gobos plus an amber gel. Want a forest in daytime? Light colour cyc wash with some foliage break-ups. It makes the audiece do some work, but that isn't a bad thing.

[natethegreat]

Another idea besides projectors is either use an existing ellipsoidal and use IPro slides, or invest in a Selecon Fixed Beam Ellipsoidal. It runs about the same price as a ETC ellipsoidal, and uses the same HPL lamp. The heat from the instrument dissipates through the back end, so it doesn't give off any heat. Because of this, you can use regular transparencies to display different images of scenery (really easy to manufacture at a school of course). I've never actually done this, but I've seen it demonstrated by a lighting professor at Texas Wesleyan University. It's pretty cool.

[lieperjp]

Originally Posted by seanandkate

If you're asking whether or not to BUY a scrim or cyc for your venue to make it more flexible, I would buy a cyc first (and make sure that you have the money to actually use it's virtues). I love cyc lighting to set mood and make a stage look really big and 'open' -- a black curtain tends to make a stage feel more compressed. But that could be just me. Do use projected scenery well, you'll need a ton of dough and a ton of expertise. What a cyc will allow you to do that you couldn't before with black curtains, is take colour from striplights, act as a target surface for gobos, etc. Need a night skyline? Dark blue cyc wash with building window gobos plus an amber gel. Want a forect in daytime? Light colour cyc wash with some foliage break-ups. It makes the audiece do some work, but that isn't a bad thing.

+1 for this idea. Instead of doing the projection, a cyc with some cyc lights and some new ERSes (Derek, plural???) would be a better investment at this time. Especially since you don't have enough room backstage.

[icewolf08]

Originally Posted by natethegreat

Another idea besides projectors is either use an existing ellipsoidal and use IPro slides, or invest in a Selecon Fixed Beam Ellipsoidal. It runs about the same price as a ETC ellipsoidal, and uses the same HPL lamp. The heat from the instrument dissipates through the back end, so it doesn't give off any heat. Because of this, you can use regular transparencies to display different images of scenery (really easy to manufacture at a school of course). I've never actually done this, but I've seen it demonstrated by a lighting professor at Texas Wesleyan University. It's pretty cool.

Actually, the Selecon is significantly more expensive than SourceFours by about $40-$50. It does not use the same HPL lamp as the source 4. The selecon fixtures use a cold mirror and heat sink to pull most of the heat out of the beam.

[Dreadpoet]

Projection is a bad idea for long term fix in my mind. It's cool to pull out for some shows, but on-and-on it I question the quality of the experience and it just plain getting old. I would suggest that you invest in a cyc...or paint the back wall (needs to be smooth though, and I prefer to paint mine a very very light blue to combat color temperature making my white light appear amberish). I agree that just lighting that will create visual intrigue. If you have neither the time nor expertise to build for all of your productions...create some platforms and go all Appia...it will be interesting for most any production and provide a better long-term solution than just trying a few 2d slides. Platform stages force the audience to pay attention to the actors and make a statement as to what you think is important, were as a constant projected set will force your audience to say “hey, seen that before.” Lastly, if you are going to go the projection route…research, research, research. Some dude before my time thought much the same way you did and dropped a pretty penny in a projector that is mighty powerful, but all wrong for our facility because of IceWolf’s observation about light hitting actors across the face. It has been a very sore point between administration and our program ever since.

[icewolf08]

Originally Posted by natethegreat

Another idea besides projectors is either use an existing ellipsoidal and use IPro slides, or invest in a Selecon Fixed Beam Ellipsoidal. It runs about the same price as a ETC ellipsoidal, and uses the same HPL lamp. The heat from the instrument dissipates through the back end, so it doesn't give off any heat. Because of this, you can use regular transparencies to display different images of scenery (really easy to manufacture at a school of course). I've never actually done this, but I've seen it demonstrated by a lighting professor at Texas Wesleyan University. It's pretty cool.

Actually, the Selecon is significantly more expensive than SourceFours by about $40-$50. It does not use the same HPL lamp as the source 4. The selecon fixtures use a cold mirror and heat sink to pull most of the heat out of the beam.

[Mutch]

Wow, thanks guys. This is the first time I've used a Theatrical Forum and it was well worth it. Now my head is really spinning.

First, thanks for the rear projection answers. I definitely will not be going that way for a couple reasons that you guys mentioned: 1) Cost and 2) I only have about 2 feet behind back curtain.

Money is a huge issue as we are a small rural school we no funding. What I buy is made from ticket sales/fundraising. So I am slowly piecing together.

It seems everyone agrees on the Cyc lights and a Cyc
or
Fixed Beam Ellip.

I'm going to look into prices on these items.

Thanks again,
Dean