pc help me!!

[Dreadpoet]

What connector out there is going to give me the purest signal from pc to my soundcraft GB4? I know you can go through the headphone jack...is there anything that goes through a USB port? Obviously I'm wanting to avoid buzz while have a high quality feed. Will I want it to have a 1/4" connector feeding in to the console, or a 3pin mic connector.

[gpforet]

If you're just wanting left and right, then just about any usb interface will give you what you want. M-Audio makes a few cost effective unit and provides you with two channels of input back to the computer as well if you're interested in recording your board output. Most of these units will have balanced/unbalanced 1/4" outputs which you can plug directly into your console.

What connector out there is going to give me the purest signal from pc to my soundcraft GB4? I know you can go through the headphone jack...is there anything that goes through a USB port? Obviously I'm wanting to avoid buzz while have a high quality feed. Will I want it to have a 1/4" connector feeding in to the console, or a 3pin mic connector.

[mbenonis]

Probably the best solution will be a FireWire audio device, such as the ones made by MOTU, M-Audio (though they can be buggy), Presonus, etc. Short of that, USB can work but it was never designed for high-throughput, low latency audio work. Finally, sound cards will also work but you may need to use a DI-box between the computer and the sound console to balance the signal, isolate it electrically, and potentially break the ground.

[jkowtko]

To add to the above ...

For analog board inputs, an audio interface with balanced outputs will ensure the cleanest and strongest signal. These will be 1/4" TRS (no one makes them with XLR outs). You will see some of the lowest end units with 1/4" TS (unbalanced) or RCA outputs (also unbalanced) ... signal won't be nearly as good. So stick with something that has TRS balanced outputs.

I personally own the M-Audio FastTrackPro which is USB ... works great from my laptop and sounds about as clean and punchy as the M-Audio Delta 1010 and Delta 66 I have at the theater (both of which are PCI card-based installed on desktop machines)

A friend of mine just bought a Presonus Firebox which uses Firewire ... loves it. These are both <$200 units.

[howlingwolf487]

The digital domain will definitely keep many of the problems found in analog audio transmission to a minimum.

Presonus makes some good stuff, both USB and Firewire. Also, Sound Devices makes a great, rugged 2-channel USB interface called the USBPre.

If you want to go with an analog option, Whirlwind makes the PCDI and ProCo makes the iFace.

Check out the options...let us know your decision.

[DuckJordan]

this is what we have in our theater and its worked amazing. we've almost completely gone digital as far as sound effects go

http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/AudioFire4/index.php

they also have a smaller set up the AudioFire 2 which is a little less expensive but is also the less useful of the two cheapys. there are more high end but i am going to guess that your looking for a fairly inexpensive. you do not have to use professional software with this device either you can use any software. the computer treats it as an external sound card.

[Lightguy48]

If you get desperate and must use the internal sound card (I highly discourage this as 'non-pro' PC soundcards have tons of noise in their output) look at purchasing an ART CleanBox to convert from consumer levels to pro/balanced levels
Applied Research & Technology: ARTcessories™

[TimmyP1955]

1/8" TRS to dual 1/4" TS.

Radial ProAV1 and ProAV2 audio-video direct boxes

Radial Engineering - JPC Computer / A/V Direct Box

The USB or FireWire box of your choice.

[museav]

If you get desperate and must use the internal sound card (I highly discourage this as 'non-pro' PC soundcards have tons of noise in their output) look at purchasing an ART CleanBox to convert from consumer levels to pro/balanced levels

The biggest advantage of something like the CleanBox in this type of application would actually seem to be in the unbalanced to balanced conversion rather than the level interface, most mixer inputs would probably be able to work fine with a -10dBV level and you'd simply use the mixer preamp rather than an external gain device for the related gain.

If you are running into mic/line channels on a mixer then using a transformer based DI may have several advantages over a consumer-to-pro level matching device including more flexibility in use and potentially avoiding ground loops.

A little trivia, standard 'consumer' level audio is -10dBV (0.316VRMS) and standard 'pro' level is +4dBu (1.228VRMS) but the difference between them is 11.8dB rather than 14dB due to the difference between the 'V' and 'u' dB references. Thus the stated +20db unbalanced to balanced gain of the CleanBox seems a bit excessive while the -8dB balanced to unbalanced gain seems a bit low (it appears to be a fixed gain device with input (unbalanced-to-balanced) and output (balanced-to-unbalanced) level controls rather than a VCA device with adjustable gain).

[Dreadpoet]

I would prefer not to have to replace the soundcard in my computer...as I may want to bring in other computers. Knowing this, would the general aggrement then be that a firewire into usb device would be better than going through the headphone jack into soundcard if I'm only using consumergrade soundcards? Or am I totally missing the point?

[museav]

It is not FireWire into USB, unless you have a console that directly accepts USB or FireWire for audio, which I believe your GB4 does not, you cannot go into the mixer via USB or FireWire. What was recommended is a FireWire or USB audio interface, a box that goes between the computer and mixer a USB or FireWire connection from the computer to the interface and then analog audio from the interface into your mixer. You would use the interface in place of the sound card in a PC or laptop.

The only problem with this in your application is apparently that while an USB/FireWire interface could work with various computers, they would have to have the appropriate drivers and perhaps software and may require a little bit of setup to select the interface rather than the internal sound card for audio. If you want to interface different computers all the time or even other sources, something like the Whirlwind PCDI or ProCo iFace/iPlate/iRack may be a better choice.

[Dreadpoet]

sorry...I think that is what I meant to say about connecting the computer to console though the wording escaped me.

Is this Whirlwind PCDI or Proco product going to remove nastyness of a standard consumer soundcard though? Right now I'm using LTIBlox interface and getting poor results I think. I don't want to end up where I started.

[Studio]

Go for a usb device; Macs will recognize them without driver installs and windows probably already has drivers preinstalled.

[museav]

I can't find much information on the LTIBlox but no level and impedance matching type interface will fix problems that already exist with the audio coming out of the sound card. However, I wonder if part of your existing problem could be gain structure, how you have the computer, LTIBlox and mixer levels set. You might want to play a bit with the levels and see if that helps, it could be a free fix, minus your time, if it works.

Also just noted the part of the comment "...going through the headphone jack into soundcard if I'm only using consumergrade soundcards?", which makes me wonder if you are trying to go from a computer into a mixer or from the mixer into the computer? I thought it was the former but this more recent comment makes it sound like you may actually be trying to record on the computer rather than play from the computer. If you are going from a headphone out on the mixer into the computer you could have several issues to address and I'm not surprised it may be problematic.

[Dreadpoet]

nope...its the former...computer to console.

[jkowtko]

Okay, LTIBlox looks just like a passive DI box, converts a headphone jack output signal to something balanced that can be connected to your mixing board.

I'm guessing that it will sound terrible. You're still using the poor quality headphone amp on your computer, and this device will not improve the sound quality of that. The most it can do is prevent the cable running to the mixing board from picking electrical noise from nearby power cords.

Yes, virtually any USB- or Firewire-based audio interface will sound a lot better than anything connected to the headphone jack.

If you want to spend under $100, check out the lowest end boxes from M-Audio, Tascam, etc. Balanced or not, the outputs from these devices will be a noticable improvement over the headphone jack. Look for something cheap on Craigslist ... you can find these for $50 sometimes.

But if you have up to $200, get something with balanced outputs. Plenty of brand suggestions above -- if you run across a different unit you haven't heard of before, ask here and you'll get some opinions.

[Chris15]

There are 2 basic problems with an internal soundcard, and they are worse for a sound "card" that's just a chip on the motherboard.

Number one is the digital to analogue converters, the internal ones are looking to minimise space and mostly to squeeze every spare cent out of the design. They use the cheapest components they can. This leads to a subpristine output.

Number two is the location of the analogue audio circuitry - it's close to the CPU and what not inside the PC. There's a good reason why your desktop computer case is metallic and your laptop has a foil lining - the insides of a computer are hideously noisy in electrical / RF terms... So the analogue audio is having noise imposed inside the computer... This would be less of an issue with balanced outputs, but these are not the run of the mill. So basically any external audio interface is going to start a few steps ahead in getting good audio...

[museav]

In general an external USB or FireWire interface will provide better audio quality, and more appropriate connectivity, than the sound cards that come with most desktops or laptops. However, many people are perfectly satisfied with playback from their internal sound cards. You may not get the frequency response, noise levels, etc. that you might with an external audio interface, but if the sound is really that bad then that indicates there may be some other factor involved. Regardless of the physical interface, proper levels and gain staging will still be relevant and I think that may currently be a contributing factor.

There is also probably a little overgeneralization going on in some of the comments as M-Audio, ASUS, RME, Lynx Studio Technology, Emu and others do offer PCI internal sound cards that use high quality DACs and ADCs, provide high levels of shielding, etc. It is quite likely that some of these internal sound cards would sound as good as, if not better than, many lower cost external interfaces.

So an external interface would likely offer several advantages and is probably worth considering but I would look at the current levels and make sure that what you have is working properly before assessing whether a change is required.

[Dreadpoet]

I think I am going with the fast track pro from M-Audio. It sounds like it is going to be the most flexible for what I am wanting. Your discussions are always very helpful in making me make well informed choices. museav, I will be checking over board levels as well.

[jevans]

You could use xlr to rca adaptors and an rca to 3.5mm cables. That seems to work quite well

[techfreek]

I encountered a similar dilemma back in the fall when I had to run sound(scene change music) for my schools play. We were playing with the idea of using my pc's digital out, but couldn't figure out how to use the digital in's in our board (TT24). We ended up getting a Whirlwind PC-DI box to run the sign from the headphone jack to the PC-DI to left and right XLR. The show went well and we have used it many times since then, including many dance shows, and the many times when people give us their iPod at the last second. Sounds just great!

[MisterTim]

We were playing with the idea of using my pc's digital out, but couldn't figure out how to use the digital in's in our board (TT24). We ended up getting a Whirlwind PC-DI box to run the sign from the headphone jack to the PC-DI to left and right XLR.

*facepalm*

So you spent $130 on a box instead of asking us and spending maybe $10 on a cable...

Well, as long as it works...

You could use xlr to rca adaptors and an rca to 3.5mm cables. That seems to work quite well

Maybe on Mars, where line inputs and mic inputs are completely interchangeable...

Of course that doesn't mean it won't work, but putting a line input into a mic preamp is generally considered a bad idea. When it does work properly, it'll be running so hot that you'll have no headroom with the fader.

If you want to do this, either pick up a DI box such as the one that techfreek posted, or use a 20dB in-line attenuator to bring the signal down to mic level so the signal is workable. (I think it's 20dB, someone correct me if I'm wrong...)

[techfreek]

So you spent $130 on a box instead of asking us and spending maybe $10 on a cable...

I understand how that sounds. Also the PC-DI box is better for our space because we can use it in more applications. The reason why we thought about using the digital is because the pc we were using (my own personal computer) would be in for the show, and at no other times. With the box we can use it for all sorts of things, we have it set up so when one of the dance companies comes, they plug directly into the box which is on the desk (they run the sound from a laptop) or when we are given an ipod, with the cable we couldn't do that.

[MisterTim]

I understand how that sounds. Also the PC-DI box is better for our space because we can use it in more applications. The reason why we thought about using the digital is because the pc we were using (my own personal computer) would be in for the show, and at no other times. With the box we can use it for all sorts of things, we have it set up so when one of the dance companies comes, they plug directly into the box which is on the desk (they run the sound from a laptop) or when we are given an ipod, with the cable we couldn't do that.

No no, I understand why you were using it, and it's a good solution, just the way you worded it made me laugh :D

As far as the digital inputs on the tt24 go, have you figured them out? I would get into it here, but I don't really feel like sending the on-topic train off the rails, so how about starting a new thread if you haven't.

[bishopthomas]

So you spent $130 on a box instead of asking us and spending maybe $10 on a cable...

The PC DI is actually a great thing to have around. If they ever need to run a laptop, iPod, acoustic guitar, etc. from stage then they'll have a way to balance the signal and send it down the multicore. There is also a ground lift, and (if I remember correctly) a pad.

Maybe on Mars, where line inputs and mic inputs are completely interchangeable...

Many consoles (albeit not the OP's) have pads on the inputs.

[techfreek]

As far as the digital inputs on the tt24 go, have you figured them out? I would get into it here, but I don't really feel like sending the on-topic train off the rails, so how about starting a new thread if you haven't.

I agree. I won't go any more off topic then by saying, I have learned a lot more about the board (we got it 2 months before then and never were really trained on it), I have yet to learn the digital ins, but the need has not arisen yet.