Installs - Assistive Listening System that does not sound like crap.

[Footer]

So, in the sound system overhaul that I am bidding out we are looking to replace out asst listening system. The one we have now sounds like you are listening to the show in a coffee can.

So, what system do you have? Do you use a line feed from your console or did you place a mic somewhere just for the asst listening system? Most importantly, could you stand to listen to an entire show on it and not throw the receiver at the wall?

[fx120]

I've *never* come across a reasonably priced solution for assisted hearing that didn't sound like crap. But look at it this way: Hearing what people are saying and being able to understand it is a vast improvement over not being able to understand it at all. I do a bi-monthy board meeting that has several hearing impaired members including the chair, and I spend the entire time tuned into the same broadcast they're listening to so I can accurately monitor what is going out to them. Often these meetings will go on for several hours, and by no means is it intolerable to listen to.

Listen Technologies is about as good as it gets without insane pricing.

The new T-35 transmitters from Williams Sound are also much better than they used to be, on par with Listen, but still not what I would consider as suitable for music. They are less expensive than Listen.

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I've found best results come from a seperate aux off the main console, mixed separately from the main house mix. The second best solution is to just take the main PA feed and use that. Just putting a mic up in the house is going to lead to less than ideal results. Of course if not all of your actors are mic'd, you're going to need to find another way to get them into the system.

Personally we run Williams at our shop as it's been very economical for us to purchase and maintain a very large inventory (500 receivers, 20 transmitters) with them. Their service and support is superb.

[DaveySimps]

We use the Telex Sound Mate with 2 condenser mics hung in the house to feed it. For musicals, we send a separate mix directly into that system from the board for a higher quality signal. It is a good system for us.

The problem with all of these types of systems I have seen are how they handle the dynamics of a show. It is difficult to get a good quality signal during a "quiet" part of a show AND a good uncompressed or undistorted signal for the louder parts of a show with out having to monitor the feed all of the time.

~Dave

[wolf825]

We have an ancient Williams system.....but are looking to upgrade with a Sennheiser system....the Williams stuff 'works'....but its old and the new gear doesn't play well with it when we have to replace....so...

I've never heard a hearing system that sounded 'great'...none ever sound 'great'. We do a lot of events that are acoustic--so given that not everything will always have a mic, we simply do a stage mic overhead to feed the system (long thro shotgun)--run into a small 5ch rack mixer, with a high gain cranked on it and a HPF--and then a compressor inline to keep it manageable since the gain is really open..

This way its 'always on' and can't be 'forgotten'....and if we ever need to augment the feed--we also have a line feed off an Aux from our desk as a suppliment to add to it...

-w

[sk8rsdad]

We have the Phonic Ear FM System. I vaguely remember it being somewhere between $2000 and $3000 for the transmitter and a dozen receiver packs. We were eligible for an accessibility grant that paid for most of it. There might be similar grants or subsidies available in your area.

[derekleffew]

Does anyone (excluding sk8rsdad) have experience with a system other than the five listed at Assistive Listening Devices | ProAudioSuperstore.com ?

[museav]

Does anyone (excluding sk8rsdad) have experience with a system other than the five listed at Assistive Listening Devices | ProAudioSuperstore.com ?

You mean like Comtek and Gentner? The latter is cheating a bit since Listen Technologies is the company Russ Gentner formed after leaving Gentner, however Gentner is still around (now as a separate company independent of ClearOne) and is still offering some of the same products that were offered when Russ left. I've also used the Brahler and DIS (Danish Interpretation Systems) IR audio distribution systems for simultaneous interpretation and ALS.

As far as sound quality, apparently some people somewhat misunderstand the intent of ALS systems. These systems often intentionally incorporate processing to address common hearing loss and increase intelligibility for users. Also consider that in many cases much of the low frequency content still comes from the house system. The overall goal of an ALS system is to assist the hearing impaired and especially to improve intelligibility for them, not to sound good by themselves to those with normal hearing.

I personally like to use an aux send that includes one or more ambient mic channels, sort of the best of both worlds. Whether the aux is pre or post fader and/or EQ depends on the situation, so ideally I use an aux that is switchable pre/post per channel.

[Chris15]

Recognising this creates a slight tangent, but down here the norm is to use induction loop systems, is this not the standard in the states?

[fx120]

Recognising this creates a slight tangent, but down here the norm is to use induction loop systems, is this not the standard in the states?

It depends on the person needing the assistance. Many people don't want to use a hearing aid, and as such can't make use of an induction loop. Typically for every 100 receivers I've sold, 85 of them are packaged with traditional earpieces or headsets.

We also do a lot of translation work with the same systems, in which case virtually every receiver will have a headset.

[Footer]

I will probably pick up one or two loops for people to wear. I think what Chris was talking about is having an induction loop built into the venue. I have see that type of system in stalled once, and it was in a conference room.

[Chris15]

I think what Chris was talking about is having an induction loop built into the venue. I have see that type of system in stalled once, and it was in a conference room.

I was indeed talking about the type that gets laid under the carpet or in the slab for a new construction, or above the ceiling.

[museav]

Induction loop systems are much more common in the EU and down under than in the US. I believe that the UK virtually requires them in the DDA, their version of the ADA, while the US allows for wired, IL, IR or RF systems. I've seen references that 90-95% of hearing aids in the UK have integrated T-Coils while in the US it was I believe the number is somewhere around 50%, but apparently that number is rising as it was around 30% 10 years ago. People here are seemingly more concerned with the aesthetics of hearing aids and thus more likely to want them as small as possible, which means not including T-Coils. Add that to the fact that many people who might want hearing assistance in theatre, church or other similar situations do not wear hearing aids full time and I've seen estimates for the US as low as 12% to 15% of the people who could benefit from ALS being expected to have T-Coil compatible hearing aids.

Another factor is that while just about anybody can install an RF system, IR and IL take a little more consideration. An induction loop system must be properly designed to both work effectively and not create problems for other devices, especially in retrofit situations. IR and RF systems are typically more amenable to multi-channel simultaneous ALS and interpretation use, a consideration in some applications.

Induction loop systems are pretty much inherently limited in frequency response. The T-Coils virtually have to filter out 60Hz (US) to avoid getting hum from power systems so that limits the low frequency response while losses inherent in the loop and transmission tend to limit high frequency response. The IEC spec for frequency response of IL systems is 100Hz-5,000Hz, +/-3dB, although some systems do exceed this.


Added: Trying to avoid a political discussion as this is not a political statement but when the government or a national health plan provides hearing aids for anyone that qualifies, then more people are likely to get hearing aids. Those groups then also control aspects such as requiring that t-coils be incorporated in all hearing aids they provide. So there is probably a pretty direct relationship between who would have to pay for the hearing aids and what choices the users have in the specific models to the percentage of the hearing impaired population that can be expected to have induction loop compatible hearing aids. This is probably one reason why the numbers in the US have been so low compared to many other countries.

[BillESC]

My vote goes to the Telex Sound Mate system. We've installed a lot of them and gotten no complaints.

[FMEng]

run into a small 5ch rack mixer, with a high gain cranked on it and a HPF--and then a compressor inline to keep it manageable since the gain is really open..
-w

A compressor is better than nothing, but a gated AGC, such as an Aphex Compellor would be well suited to feed an assitive listening system. The gating will prevent the noise from being pumped up during pauses, and the AGC and compression dynamics are very subtle, almost undetectable. Granted that a Compellor is a bit pricey, but for very good reason.

[TimmyP1955]

We've got a ListenTech RF system. The main problem, which I expect extends to other brands - is the crappy earbud that they supply. One of our regular patrons brings her own cheap Koss headphones to use instead of the bud - I had a listen and the quality for speech was quite decent.

[Raktor]

Recognising this creates a slight tangent, but down here the norm is to use induction loop systems, is this not the standard in the states?

We just replaced our induction loop with a FM system. Induction loop wasn't working very strongly (only hit the first few rows), was interfering with guitar amplifiers and just being a general PITA. The new FM system has been much better received (though I can't tell you what gear it is; I don't pay much attention to the noise side).