Mixing for LCR+S

[tk2k]

Hi CB,

I'm sound engineer for a student band that has hit it pretty big locally, and they're playing at a 1000 person venue in two weeks. House system is extremely well outfitted (although i'm borrowing a mixing deck from the college) however it's set up in LCR+Sub feeds. I always mix LR+S when available, or LR, but I've never mixed with a center channel cluster before. House engineer hasn't been particularly helpful so far (well I can turn it off if you want was his reply) so I'm looking for some very broad conceptual advice of how to approach LCR.

Mix surface is an iLive system

Thanks

[cpf]

In your scenario the most common thing I've seen it used for is to make the lead vocals punch out a bit from the rest of the band. Most shows I see, however, just use LR, and generally not even stereo.

YMMV, though. I'd just play a bit during the sound check to see what difference it makes with the venue and your band's music.

[BNBSound]

It would help to know what desk you're borrowing to mix on. Does it have built in facilities to make LCR mixing a snap or will you have to fake it with an aux bus?

[tk2k]

It would help to know what desk you're borrowing to mix on. Does it have built in facilities to make LCR mixing a snap or will you have to fake it with an aux bus?

iLive t112 so yes, completely configurable as a normal fader bus

[DaveySimps]

Is it a true LCR system, or is the center a fill speaker for distribution because of left and right stacks do not cover the width of the room? There is a big difference between the two types of systems.

~Dave

[Footer]

We are L/C/R/Sub/FF here. Some guys will take all 5 channels. Some will just send us L/R/Sub and we will sum together the center and pull the FF off of L/R. Some guys would take all 15 boxes individually if they could. Do what works for you. In our room if you want to push up past 100 you have to use the center cluster. Some guys don't use it at all. Give it a listen and see what you like.

[tk2k]

Is it a true LCR system, or is the center a fill speaker for distribution because of left and right stacks do not cover the width of the room? There is a big difference between the two types of systems.

~Dave

It's three milo arrays so I assume it's full

[bishopthomas]

The more the merrier, I always say. I also am a control freak, so any kind of fill speaker gets a post fade aux send. A lot of people send the center cluster via the mono out of the console, but that limits you to assign/no assign to the speakers. Same with a matrix. I like to have control of individual channels, so that's why I like using the auxes. As others have said, try it before you make a decision, and I agree that it can really help get vocals out front.

Honestly, a bigger concern would be learning a new digital console (of you're not familiar with the iLive there's a slight learning curve, especislly with the method of assigning and sending channels to mixes).

[museav]

It's three milo arrays so I assume it's full

Simply having three speakers or arrays of any type does not make a system LCR. The issue is how well each channel covers the listener area and how much what the listeners hear may vary and that is a function of the system design, not just the products used. It being MILO arrays does not make it being true LCR any more likely than if it were Mackie or Behringer boxes other than that it possibly being more likely that the system was properly designed.

Another possibility is that there are many LR + center mono systems where the speaker systems are similar to that as for true LCR and the difference is in the related panning and mix bus assignment. Or it could be a cross-matrix LCR system, a sort of LCR on steroids sometimes used for wider or fan shaped rooms. Three arrays could even be an exploded mono system. In the end, you may have to listen to the system and hear what you actually get before making any final decisions.

The main difference between a stereo system and an LCR system is that in a stereo system as you pan hard left to center you are decreasing the left channel level and increasing the right channel level until both are equal. With LCR you are decreasing the left channel level and increasing the center channel level until it is all center. In a stereo system anything not panned hard left or hard right is going in varying degrees to both the left and right speakers while in an LCR system nothing is ever going to both the left and right speakers. So in a stereo system anything panned center gets the combined coverage of the left and right channel speakers while in an LCR system anything panned center is reproduced purely by the center channel. And in a stereo system something panned midway between right and center is primarily in the right speaker but somewhat in the left while in an LCR system it is primarily in the right and somewhat in the center with nothing in the left. So the effect of panning with LCR can be quite different for some listeners unless the system is properly designed.

[tk2k]

Thank you Brad, this is very helpful

Simply having three speakers or arrays of any type does not make a system LCR. The issue is how well each channel covers the listener area and how much what the listeners hear may vary and that is a function of the system design, not just the products used. It being MILO arrays does not make it being true LCR any more likely than if it were Mackie or Behringer boxes other than that it possibly being more likely that the system was properly designed.

Another possibility is that there are many LR + center mono systems where the speaker systems are similar to that as for true LCR and the difference is in the related panning and mix bus assignment. Or it could be a cross-matrix LCR system, a sort of LCR on steroids sometimes used for wider or fan shaped rooms. Three arrays could even be an exploded mono system. In the end, you may have to listen to the system and hear what you actually get before making any final decisions.

The main difference between a stereo system and an LCR system is that in a stereo system as you pan hard left to center you are decreasing the left channel level and increasing the right channel level until both are equal. With LCR you are decreasing the left channel level and increasing the center channel level until it is all center. In a stereo system anything not panned hard left or hard right is going in varying degrees to both the left and right speakers while in an LCR system nothing is ever going to both the left and right speakers. So in a stereo system anything panned center gets the combined coverage of the left and right channel speakers while in an LCR system anything panned center is reproduced purely by the center channel. And in a stereo system something panned midway between right and center is primarily in the right speaker but somewhat in the left while in an LCR system it is primarily in the right and somewhat in the center with nothing in the left. So the effect of panning with LCR can be quite different for some listeners unless the system is properly designed.