Installs - Two operating locations?

[gafftaper]

Gaff humbly steps into audio world and bows to honor the noise boys before asking a question... Greetings wise ones.

We have a brand new student union building here on campus and I've got a nice fat budget to do some really cool audio and video stuff. They have this small stage. I need to setup a sound system with both an easy mode where someone can setup one microphone and turn it on, set a level and walk away. I also need to be able to run a small console from the back of the house for something like a small band.

I have a basic understanding of Cobranet and I'm wondering if I can use it to do this without running cables to the back of the house? Can I have a box on stage with like 12 mic lines that converts them to digital. Roll out a console to the back of the house and plug it into the cobranet to mix those mic lines without running cable?

I see some consoles have the Cobranet network on board. But it seems like it's only the really expensive ones. I don't need an expensive and huge digital console I was hoping to get away with a nice small clean console with a bunch of auxiliaries. I'm thinking 16 channels... maybe an Allen and Heath?

I also need to have the ability to send signal to three adjacent rooms as well as having a fully automatic vs live mixing modes. So a good DSP is needed to control all that.

I'm not entirely sure what I'm asking here. I'll be sitting down with some local audio guys to spec out some system ideas. But I need a little help to point me in the right direction. I know what I want but I'm not 100% sure how to get there. Am I going in the right direction with the Cobranet? Any suggestions for choosing a DSP to handle multiple zones of playback and the full auto mode?

Thanks!

[DaveySimps]

I think you are heading in the right direction with the cobranet stuff. You may want to check out the Soundweb DSP's from BSS Audio. They are very flexible.

~Dave

[rwhealey]

We have a BSS Soundweb London, and although we don't do it, I think you can use it to switch between two totally different sets of configurations with a programmable wall controller.

[museav]

There are numerous ways to approach this. On a current project we are setting up three modes, a "basic" mode that takes the signal from an 8 channel automixer (fed via mic splits) and routes it to the fixed center array, a "speech" mode that uses the center array and the A&H iLive electronics but with small wall mounted slider user interface at the stage (neither of these two modes requires the console main work surface at FOH to even be in place, although the "speech" mode allows it) and finally a "performance" mode that uses a left/center/right speaker arrangement (the left and right arrays are motorized and can be raised when not being used) and the main work surface at FOH. Which mode is active is selected via a custom pushbutton panel at the equipment rack and the actual differences relates primarily to routing and processing within DSP presets.

I have done numerous less complex "lecture/performance" arrangements using automixers and DSP units or even using the DSP to also serve as the automixer.

I wasn't sure from your description, but is the idea to have separate physical inputs for the two modes or to use the same inputs for both? That could affect how well a networked audio solution might work. Whether it is realistic to have a computer connected can also be a factor.

[gafftaper]

Originally Posted by museav

I wasn't sure from your description, but is the idea to have separate physical inputs for the two modes or to use the same inputs for both? That could affect how well a networked audio solution might work. Whether it is realistic to have a computer connected can also be a factor.

First off the stage is going to be VERY small and the most advanced thing likely to ever happen there is a small student band with half a dozen audio lines coming in.

The more I'm thinking about it I think it makes the most sense to have two mic lines that run straight to the DSP for an auto mixer configuration. Then have a set of 12 analog lines that run from the stage to the back of the house. A couple of lines that go from the back of the house to the stage for monitors. And finally a couple of lines that run from the back of the house to the DSP with a manual mode setting.

Seems like that would probably be a lot cheaper than setting up something like cobranet to do the same thing.

Thoughts?

[DaveySimps]

Yes, I think that would be cheaper, and easier to install. The Cobranet stuff is not cheap, so you can save some $$$ in the budget on this one.

~Dave

[themuzicman]

We had this deal in my high school. basically, we had a small setup on stage, with several inputs in the stage. A rack that had two wireless mics, a small rack mixer, a cd player with line in for iPods, and a power distribution rack.

When power to this setup was turned on (via a key in the power distribution thing), it hit a relay, which turned on the amps in the booth. When you turned it off, the amps turned off.

Up in the booth, We'd just flip our amps on and off along with our power distribution. Only deal is, when we left we'd have to make sure the switch was in the right place (i.e. the stage users didn't turn off their stuff) or else it would throw that stuff out of synch, but other than that, no big problems.

[Chris15]

If you want to get fancy, then I'm sure you can find some way to trigger the change between basic and full modes by means of the multipin being plugged in... Might be harder in DSP land than a straight relay switchover of lines to the inputs, but there has to be a way...

[museav]

Originally Posted by Chris15

If you want to get fancy, then I'm sure you can find some way to trigger the change between basic and full modes by means of the multipin being plugged in... Might be harder in DSP land than a straight relay switchover of lines to the inputs, but there has to be a way...

I'm not sure what multipin you are referencing but two extra pins on the multipin that are wired together and go to a control input on the DSP could be used to tell when something was plugged in and trigger any changes.

In gaff's situation it sounds like he may not even need different modes, just a couple of inputs on the stage to the DSP to an automixer within the DSP and a couple of other inputs direct into the DSP from the mixer. Then mix the automixer output and direct inputs inside the DSP, perhaps after some processing on each, then into the general system processing. Both the automix and manual mix would always be live but you'd typically only be using one or the other. You could even derive ALS or other mixes of both the automixed and manual mixed signals if you wanted. If you use programmable DSPs that are 'drag and drop' type programming, then this type of system building is easy to accomplish .

[gafftaper]

Originally Posted by museav

In gaff's situation it sounds like he may not even need different modes, just a couple of inputs on the stage to the DSP to an automixer within the DSP and a couple of other inputs direct into the DSP from the mixer. Then mix the automixer output and direct inputs inside the DSP, perhaps after some processing on each, then into the general system processing. Both the automix and manual mix would always be live but you'd typically only be using one or the other.

That sounds like a great strategy. We want the auto mode to be something that a person with no knowledge at all can follow a simple set of instructions to operate a microphone. For the manual mode I want it to also be very easy. Something I can train a student with half a brain to use in 10 minutes. The less settings to deal with on the rack the better.