feedback! help

[AlexD]

I am doing a small production with my school, they have asked me to put in some sound reinforcement, and I have. I have used two C 1000s on ether side of the stage, at floor level touching the stage almost. The speakers at the moment are on ether side of the stage right next to the stage and the mics. When the next brake comes we are going to move the two speakers in front of the stage so the mics will be behind the speakers. I can't turn up the mics enough to pick up the sound before the feedback comes. I have set the eq's on the mixer to very low bass and high treble. Will this sort out the feed back problem and is there anything else I can do to sort it out

I also have a Beta 57 in the middle of the stage to pick up some solo parts. We do have some wireless headsets but they are very bad... the model(s) we have are a pro8HE headset, ATW-T701 UHF transmitter and an ATW-R700 receiver. We have three sets of these. Do you think that these will be better to use than a Beta 57 at mid stage? Or do you not think that this is necessary? Keeping in mind these are 9-13 year olds.

[epimetheus]

Move your C1000's away from the sides of the stage and get them away from the speakers. I'd place them about halfway between center stage and off stage on either side. You should also elevate the mics above the stage somewhat, a foot or so at least. Otherwise you'll pick up a lot of footsteps. That should help with your feedback. I'd use the headsets on the solo parts, even for 9-13 years olds, as long as it fits with the subject matter. I put lapel mics on that same age group for an Independence Day show at my church. It worked fine as long as your careful with the mutes. Kids say the darndest things...

[AlexD]

Thank you, Ill try that when they finish.

[AlexD]

I am going to be installing a permanent system soon and I was wondering what do you guys think about mounting condensers on the grid? Would it eliminate feedback if it was placed well and would it pick up the sound any differently? Do u recommend anything on that part?

[epimetheus]

I wouldn't advise permanantly mounted mics, ever. I have flown mics in front of the proscenium before for a choir show. It was only for recording though, not amplification. And it was a $2000 set of mics.

[AlexD]

we did a lot with the c 1000s and it wasn’t very good at all... it didn’t pick up anything from more than 1 and a half feet away from the mic... is this the type of mic or have i done something wrong with it?

In the end we I did set up the wireless mic’s and got the sounding good with no feedback. But the director though it was going too far...? So we decided to rig a beta 58 on the grid about centre stage (where most of the singing was happening) and that worked quite well. I think with a more suited mic for sound reinforcement it would have worked better but this worked well for the mean time ( we had a day to rig all the sound and lighting and sort out the details... I would have made a better system if I had more time but I didn’t )

[Blah067]

If you ever get a chance, browse through Shure's (the brand) webpage, particularly the FAQ database. Many of the questions you continue to ask have answers there.

You will also notice something to this effect on their website quite frequently as a response to questions such as this one. "Will microphone X pick up source Y"
Answer: "There is no such thing as a magic microphone. It's simple physics, the closer the microphone is to the source, the better it will sound, and the more gain before feedback. PERIOD."

They also answer this questions a lot. "Which microphone is best?"
Answer: "If we answered that from a money point of view, our microphone X, at a price of 1200 dollars would be BEST".

This may be their most expensive microphone in the world. You could go buy yourself a whole boatload of these microphones. If you don't have the ability, capability, and knowledge of how to position and condition this microphone, it isn't going to sound well! PERIOD.

Different microphones are made for different purposes, and they have to be used to the best of the condition they were designed for.

There is a reason that a wireless hairmounted microphone sounds the "best" (clear, sharp, no feedback issues, most gain before feedback), because the microphone is 6 inches from the mouth! If you put a 50,000 dollar mic 20 feet away from the mouth, and have a noisy room, is it going to sound good? NO!

Another line from Shure: Consider a talk show like Conan O'Brien or David Lettermen. They have essentially an unlimited budget and can buy the most expensive microphones in the world. However, they are still governed by the laws of physics and realize that in order to mic a person in the audience, the microphone MUST be close. You will notice they take a wired or wireless microphone into the audience so that it is within 1 foot of the persons mouth.

Get my point yet?

[Blah067]

Originally Posted by AlexD

we did a lot with the c 1000s and it wasn’t very good at all... it didn’t pick up anything from more than 1 and a half feet away from the mic... is this the type of mic or have i done something wrong with it?

In the end we I did set up the wireless mic’s and got the sounding good with no feedback. But the director though it was going too far...? So we decided to rig a beta 58 on the grid about centre stage (where most of the singing was happening) and that worked quite well. I think with a more suited mic for sound reinforcement it would have worked better but this worked well for the mean time ( we had a day to rig all the sound and lighting and sort out the details... I would have made a better system if I had more time but I didn’t )

And BTW, a Beta58a is the big brother of one of THE most known, popular, and most used microphone in LIVE SOUND to this day, which is the SM58. These are both two microphones that are most commonly used in concerts and churchs alike. There's a reason.

[Chris15]

Originally Posted by Blah067

There's a reason.

Because some years ago, someone decided they were the standard.

Folks there are far better vocal mics out there...

[derekleffew]

Better in what sense? Price, availability, familiarity, rider-friendliness, durability? I specifically did not mention sound quality, but there are also many worse vocal mics than the ubiquitous SM-58.