Need suggestions for performance

[narc792]

Okay, right now I'm faced with a challenge. Basically I'm SD for my schools production of Metamorphoses. If anyone is familiar with the show you will know that it involves a pool on stage.

The actors are supposedly getting submerged in the water, making body mics useless. Unfortunately the PAC has horrible acoustics and is so big that typically boundary mics and hanging mics make no difference at all. (keep in mind they are semi cheap audio technica hanging mics and shure floor mics). Also, there will be a live band playing background music at times, and I need to make sure actors can be heard while not jeopardizing the band mix.
I am at a complete loss here.

Some more info:
The set is actually completely off stage, and on stage extensions that are lower than the stage (they are 2' high). Because of this hanging mics are difficult to use, as i can only drop them from the catwalk.
I was looking into better floor mics and found the crown audio PCC 160s...though they are expensive. I also saw the cheap Crown PZM sound grabber...it doesnt seem to be made for the stage, but it may work...

The set is merely an arch and four rocky platforms with stairs coming off the extensions by the way.


If anyone has advice please help me!!

[AlexD]

A lot of other people on here will totaly disagree with this (as i have lernt) but i have heard of peopl doing this, cover the stage with shotgun mics! The peoblem with this will be that there is quite a few mics that wont be un use (picking up anysound) that will be on unless you have good managment skills a mute the unused ones.

[DaveySimps]

Sounds like you are in a touch situation. A few thoughts I have are: try some shotgun mics. They can be better in some applications (like your pool scenario) than hanging or boundry mic. Although they are not cheap.

The Crown PCC's are great mics, but a cheaper and still good quality alternative are the Bartlett stage floor microphones. They are about $100 cheaper than the Crown mics, but they are designed by the same guys who invented the Crown PCC 160. He worked for Crown for 26 years, and for Shure before that. I would suggest the TM-125C. You also may want to investigate the cost of renting some mics from a local or reginal sound company. If you only need them for a week or two, this could be much more cost effective, especially for the shotgun mics.

The more you can do to keep the band quiet and out of the mics, the better (think heavy curtains, rugs, running instruments into the sound system via DI box instead of having amps on stage, controlled playing, especially with drum kits / percussion). I would even suggest trying to have them off stage somewhere. Area micing and live bands are a horrible combo. That scenario has all bad written all over it.

One last bit of info I always offer when using area micing is that you should not expect the same sound quality as you would get with handheld mics, or even body mics. This is just not possible with this type of micing, even under the most ideal conditions. I only mention this since inexpirenced sound ops, and more often directors, tend to expect the same sound levels and quality, it just is not phyiscally possible.

Bartlett Microphones in Elkhart, Indiana - home page

~Dave

[narc792]

hmm, shotgun mics...i never even considered them. we are running extremely under budget for this show...so I can at least afford to rent those. Is there a suggested model I should go for?

The Bartletts look like a good investment though.

Oh and the band...well there has been a change within the past hour that I was informed of. It is a two piece percussion band and it will be on stage set behind the set thats on the extensions(i feel bad for the lighting people....they loose all but one baten because of that)

I'm aware of the difference in sound quality, and my new director is actually knowledgeable enough to know this too. I once was forced to use only 3 floor mics and 3 hanging mics for a show by a quest director...that mixed with out old half dead Yamaha gf24/12 was just a nightmare. Now on the other hand I have a rolland M-400 so i can EQ a bit better and can throw a gate on the shotgun mics so I wont have to actually monitor them as much.


Thanks for the quick responses guys! You're saving my life here!

[DaveySimps]

Originally Posted by narc792

Now on the other hand I have a rolland M-400 so i can EQ a bit better and can throw a gate on the shotgun mics so I wont have to actually monitor them as much.


Thanks for the quick responses guys! You're saving my life here!

A gate can be effective, but do not rely on it to do the work for you. I think the best technique is to really ride the levels of the mics. Trying to keep the mics that are not being used down or muted, while mixing the mics in close proximity to the actors while they are talking. Believe it or not, area micing a show, when done right, can be demanding on an operator.

I have had great expirences with Audio Technica shotgun mics, as well as the Beyer MCM86N.

~Dave

[narc792]

Thanks for the tips!

If I can get the floor mics and maybe two shotguns I think i can make this happen. Money is my only issue now. I have to make a case as to why the investment in this should be made.

The Bartlett mics are 200 a pop, so I dont think I can get more than two...

I did however find cheap shotguns...Williams Sound | MIC 027 - Shotgun Handheld Microphone, Directional | MIC-027 | ProAVmax

I've have a good relationship with the owner of that site and need to ask his opinion on that mic...there really arent specs up on it. But if i cant get the floor mics I can possibly get multiple shotguns at that price...if they reliable mics.

[AlexD]

I think you will need more than two shot guns to cover the area, two condensers will just about cover a small sized stage, a shot gun for a small sized stage i sugest about 4 or 5 to cover it decently. This depends on the size of your stage, i dont have muxh exspereance with shot guns but i know they have a very small pick up area so you will need to have more than two defnetly.

[narc792]

Oh I was unclear with that, I can get 4+ shotguns if i go with those in the link I posted. The floor mics are the ones that i cant get more than two of if I am buying stuff.

Since the show is set up on stage extensions the space is considerably smaller and everyone is confined to a space of 40'x12'.

I'm thinking that if i get 4 shotguns, two to aim at the side platforms and then two closer to center I can get away with my currect shure floor mics...or rent the crown/bartletts.
Ill try and make a vector works diagram of this for better visuals and ill put my idea in, I should be getting the full design some point today so I can order wood (I'm master carpenter as well...ugh)

[narc792]

Alright, I thought I'd let you all know that I went with 6 shotguns for the show. We go up in a week and a half. I'm having beautiful results! Thanks for the suggestions!