Line Array Boxes -- SLS?

[Jezza]

Hey all -- working on the redesign to my schools theater and am arguing with the AV consultant about the correct kind of line array to install.

He's got spec'd a 20 cabinet per-side SLS LS6500 system with Lab Grupen Amps. Not only do I not really trust a ribbon-based cabinet but it also seems unnecessarily large.

Other have suggested, and I agree, and than a Nexo line array (like the GEO S1210) would sound much better, and the same coverage could be achieved with only 10 boxes per side. The use of Nexamps with internal processing would be advantageous. I'd also like to run the system on Ethersound and the Nexamps support it natively.

I haven't been able to do a shoot out between the two boxes -- anyone had any experience with either of these and can give an opinion either way?

Thanks!

[museav]

Originally Posted by Jezza

Hey all -- working on the redesign to my schools theater and am arguing with the AV consultant about the correct kind of line array to install.

He's got spec'd a 20 cabinet per-side SLS LS6500 system with Lab Grupen Amps. Not only do I not really trust a ribbon-based cabinet but it also seems unnecessarily large.

Other have suggested, and I agree, and than a Nexo line array (like the GEO S1210) would sound much better, and the same coverage could be achieved with only 10 boxes per side. The use of Nexamps with internal processing would be advantageous. I'd also like to run the system on Ethersound and the Nexamps support it natively.

I haven't been able to do a shoot out between the two boxes -- anyone had any experience with either of these and can give an opinion either way?

Can we step back? The proper speaker system solution is going to be application dependent, so can you tell us more about the application such as some about the room, the type of events, the budget, etc.? And how were the options being considered developed, were they selected specifically for how they serve your specific application or was it more based on selecting a manufacturer or model and then trying to make it fit the application? Has anyone done and predictive analysis for the results expected from what is being considered? Has anyone even verified that a line array solution is the best option for the space or is it simply an assumption? While 10 boxed versus 20 boxed does seem to indicate there may be some significant differences, it is difficult to compare two systems without enough information on the specific application. In fact, without enough information it is difficult to even know if either appears to be a good solution.

Can you also expand on your comments. Why don't you trust a ribbon based speaker? Why do you feel the Nexo would sound much better? Why do you want to use EtherSound? Have you discussed these thoughts with the Consultant? You may have very good reasons for these comments but knowing the reasoning behind them might help others better understand your goals and concerns. I always find it very helpful to know not just that someone wants a specific product but to also know the why that is behind it as that may then provide additional insights or extend into other areas of the system.

[Eboy87]

To echo what Muse said, is a line array really appropriate for the space? There's more to choosing a speaker system than just what looks cool and what everyone's using. In my opinion, sound quality and coverage should be the first two things taken into account. It's simply the right tool for the right job attitude.

[len]

I've heard Nexo, which is good. Never heard SLS. And as others have said, it's really hard to say one is better than the other without knowing the venue.

[avare]

Previous posts have identified knowing more about the application is required to give an informed response.

Working from what has been written, doing minimal research on the web showed that the SLS box uses a 6.5" driver, has a usable low frequency of 80 Hz, has a fixed horizontal coverage of 110° and is 184 mm wide. The Geo box uses a 12" driver, has a usable low frequency of 80 Hz, has a selectable horizontal coverage of 80 or 120°, and is 360 mm wide.

Ignoring other technical aspects, 20 of the SLS box make a line array roughly the same length as 10 of the GEO. In other words 20 of one equals 10 of the other in line array length, which determines the system's low frequency directivity.

As far as the other technical aspects, it depends on what the spec for the system is (see previous posts).

Andre

[Jezza]

Sorry all -- I should have known from all my other posts on the Booth that more info was needed -- I was just exhausted when I was posting the other day.

High school renovation -- brand new lighting and sound systems being installed in a geodesic dome auditorium. Capacity currently is 1k however, with the addition of a balcony, we should be up to 1.2k when all is said and done.

A line array has been spec'd due to the programming, the space, and the decibel level required. Choral, orchestral, jazz, rock, theater, drama, dance, you name it, its happens on this stage. Being a dome, its a weird space and has some flutter echos. New clouds being installed w/ absorption and reflection as well as absorption curtains on the walls. The balcony is 80'+ from the proposed array -- sort of a long narrow room so the AV consultant has proposed a significant amount of boxes near the top of the array at a 0º to get the sound out there.

Under balcony fills will exist as well as front fills.

Budget, around $100,000 for the array, maybe more depending.

Not married to any specific manufacture, however, based on recommendations by many local acousticians and live sound engineers, the SLS boxes will not deliver as the AV consultant promised. Nexo, sort of being the next in line in terms of pricing and quality has been suggested as an alternate.

Coverage plots have been developed for both systems and seem to indicate that 10 box per side Nexo will have the same approx. coverage as a 20 box per side SLS.

Ribbon line array? Don't think they would end up being as durable in the long run -- especially with the high decibels needed for MANY rock/talent shows every year. We are intending for this to be a rented space as well and I don't want to have to worry about a delicate speaker that won't take well to the abuse an untrained sound engineer can dish out.

The Nexo speaker looks much more durable and has many more hanging and rigging options. I'm still pushing to make sure this system is on motors and not dead-hung so it can be brought in easily for service or re-aiming as I'm sure they aren't going to get it right the first time -- the room is too weird. Also, esthetically, a 20 cab system is huge in that room, almost hits the top of the floor mounted subs (Dual Nexo 18" per side -- it would seem a full Nexo system would make sense...) The 10 cab system even with slightly larger boxes is much more pleasing and will not look so hulking.

Ethersound (or another digital protocol) is a must. Console (Yamaha M7CL-32) needs to be able to plug in not only from the booth but also at mix position in the house. I'm feeding a full 32 channel analog snake from the stage to the console at both positions, however, I have a rack of 16 wireless located in the booth w/ digital preamps that wants to be routed to the console at mix position without actually moving the rack (its got a lot of other gear in it, and moving anything of that size out of the booth and down some stairs really isn't an option). Hence, expansion slots being used for some digital protocol to get control over the digital pre-amps (not worried about remote gain control).

Ethersound may play in in another way too. We've got a "daily use" rack backstage which needs to feed through into the processing and amps backstage. If a DME was installed back stage with the appropriate cards, it could take signal from the "daily use" rack and feed it the processors, but it could also take signal from the wireless rack in the booth and feed it via Ethersound to the console. A simple ethercon patch would need to be made to transfer the control from booth to mix position. Assuming we are sending signal up the Ethersound, and since its bi-directional, all sends to processing could be made via Ethersound as well -- leaving all 16 analog omni outs on the console for direct returns to the stage.

Thanks for all your thoughts -- looking forward to reading your responses.

[soundlight]

I've heard of numerous problems with Ethersound from an installation standpoint. Go Cobranet if you can. It's a much better protocol. And from my experience, Cobranet is easier to work with, and compatible with a wide array of gear.

[avare]

Bottom line, ignoring your subjective opinions and ignoring facts is that the recommended LF crossover frequency for the SLS speakers is 160 Hz. Without knowing the specific model of the dual 18" subs, I have have never seen or heard of an 18" cabinet for live use that can be crossed over that high.

IOW words, the SLS SL6500 are mismatched to the subwoofers.

Andre

[avkid]

Originally Posted by avare

Without knowing the specific model of the dual 18" subs, I have have never seen or heard of an 18" cabinet for live use that can be crossed over that high.

Does our "little" 6x18 count?

[howlingwolf487]

Originally Posted by avkid

Does our "little" 6x18 count?

What's your slogan for it? "More punch than Rocky Balboa and more throw than an outfielder"?