Installs - Where to put the mixer?

[harrier]

Hey all, this is my first post and i need some professional advice. Our church is moving to a new building which already has some equipment installed. However the mixer is recessed in a room at the back behind two doors which fold out to leave a window for the sound technician to see and hear the service from. This space is five and a half feet wide and will have to be shared with a computer operator so the sound operator will be positioned tightly to one side of the opening. I'm worried that this will make life very difficult for the sound technician as it will not sound the same as actually being in the main sanctuary. We use a full band and singers so it is important to get the mix right. The main sanctuary is a multipurpose hall and is used for sports so it is unlikely that a permenantly protruding desk would be allowed. Would a desk that slides in and out of the doors be a reasonable solution or is it acceptable to work from a recessed room?

[museav]

Originally Posted by harrier

I'm worried that this will make life very difficult for the sound technician as it will not sound the same as actually being in the main sanctuary. We use a full band and singers so it is important to get the mix right.

This is probably one of the most common topics on church sound forums, it is a very common issue and your concerns are entirely valid.

The main sanctuary is a multipurpose hall and is used for sports so it is unlikely that a permenantly protruding desk would be allowed. Would a desk that slides in and out of the doors be a reasonable solution or is it acceptable to work from a recessed room?

A slide out desk would be better than working in a cave but even better might be a portable console setup and a floor box out on the floor with multipin connectors and power that lets you move the console and any associated equipment out into the room and connect it to the system with just one or two multipin connections. You might still be able to use that general approach but with the connections on a wall plate instead of in a recessed floor box.

You may not have had any choice, but this is the type of issue that would have been much better addressed when the facility was being designed, dealing with such issues after the construction is so far along typically results in higher cost and/or less than ideal solutions.

[harrier]

Thanks for the advice. I was almost certain that it was a bad situation but i needed some proffessional confirmation so that they don't think i'm being akward! the multipin solution looks interesting. i've never had to use them before
but they look like an ideal solution. There is a 24 channel multicore already in place with a little slack so if i only have to slide forward four or so feet it might be more feasible to just use a loose cable arranged in such a way so that it doesn't get stressed. If i was to use a multi connector could i safely route all inputs and speaker level outputs through one connector as well as a dmx dignal for lights or is there the possibility of interference?

[SHARYNF]

This design of using a small room with a "windows" unfortunately is common and a disaster. I think many times it comes from designers who are more familiar with lighting and sound. Being in a room with a "widow" dramatically reduces the accuracy and ability to hear properly. I have seen endless HOW and PAC's that went this way and now have temporary setups in the audience space.

Sharyn

[lieperjp]

At our church we have the mixer, cd player, equalizer and main amp in a movable case and then we have a monitor amp, lobby amp, wireless recievers in the back room (which is actually in the front next to the stage.) The wireless mics and the installed mic inputs from around the room are plugged into one of two snakes that have their female sides (help on the term here!) are permanently attached to the wall. The mixer rack has a large (custom made) metal rack on the back that holds the snake cables. For services that need a mixer, we just wheel the rack out and let out the snake cables as we go, taping down the cables along the baseboards. So far, we haven't had any problems with this setup except for the fact that the cables get really heavy and the rack sometimes gets hard to push (it needs bigger wheels.) I don't know how many channels you have on your mixer, though, and since we only have a twelve channel mixer, it's not that big or that heavy. It was fairly easy to set up, and free because the snakes were donated by a retired audio tech and the rack for the cables was made from scrap metal and welded together by my dad for free.

[museav]

Originally Posted by harrier

If i was to use a multi connector could i safely route all inputs and speaker level outputs through one connector as well as a dmx dignal for lights or is there the possibility of interference?

I always put speaker level on a separate, and physically different, connector not only to avoid crosstalk but to also avoid someone potentially misconnecting something and sending an amp output to a mic or another device in the system.

[harrier]

thanks, that makes alot of sense.

[Pie4Weebl]

Originally Posted by museav

I always put speaker level on a separate, and physically different, connector not only to avoid crosstalk but to also avoid someone potentially misconnecting something and sending an amp output to a mic or another device in the system.

Or something else worth entertaining of not having the amps at front of house but having an amp rack by the actual speakers.

[harrier]

Yeah, thanks to this sites advice and other experts it looks like we are going to be allowed to build a permenant desk in the sanctuary Which is definately the best solution from a sound guys point of view. A successful outcome ! Thanks all!