Fogger/Hazer Question

[alyx92]

Hey guys!

So a couple of productions ago, I tried to use fog as atmosphere and got some really great effects. I set it on a good interval that would maintain the atmosphere at a light level, but not go crazy. I also coordinated with the local fire department who instructed us the SOP for fog/haze. Unfortunately, some cast members (teenagers) got ahold of the machine and essentially created a 0 visibility level backstage before the show. This, in turn, set off the fire alarms, and dispatched the fire rescue team. Our theater got slapped with a $300 fine. Me, being in the booth, physically couldn't get to the cast members, and my ASMs backstage couldn't stop them.

Anyways, I'd really like to use some atmosphere in my upcoming production, but my bosses (who hold me directly responsible for the incident) don't want to hear anything about it. What can I do to prevent an accidental tripping of the alarm and to reassure my bosses that everything will be ok?

Thanks!
-alyx92

[chausman]

What can I do to prevent an accidental tripping of the alarm and to reassure my bosses that everything will be ok?

Keep the fog machine keep somewhere safe where those people cant get to it is probably the best plan. Some places in certain cities/jurisdictions will allow you to disarm the system for a certain period of time, but that is very risky. And would quire the cooperation with the AHJ.


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[Beans45601]

If it's a DMX fog machine, just hang it in the air, put it behind your fly rail, etc.

[SteveB]

Just a comment on the terminology generally used.

FOG, is usually a low laying smoke type effect, originally (in theatrical terms) created from dry ice fog machines that used dry ice (frozen CO2) dumped in a bucket/tub/55 gallon drum of hot water, then forced out on-stage with a fan system. The fog stay's close to the ground, usually deck to +2-3 ft. It dissipates rapidly and if dry ice is used, has the added concern for causing issues with low O2 levels in the orchestra pit, trap rooms, etc. so care needs to be taken with it's use. Recent systems attempt to use a chemical smoke to recreate the dry ice effect. One machine I saw had the chemical smoke run over ice cubes to a good effect.

SMOKE: Usually a dense cloud thru the air, does not lay as low to the floor.

HAZE: The choice for LD's wanting to see beams in the air, lighter particulates that hang in the air as compared to smoke.

These terms can be important when renting. If you say you want a fog machine, they may send you an AquaFog, such as this: CITY THEATRICAL

When what you really want is a haze machine such as this: Reel EFX

[alyx92]

^Great thanks for the tips!

[Van]

Almost any jurisdiction will allow or will require you to place your smoke alarm system into a "stand-by' mode when you need to use a fog, smoke or Haze effect. Many/most/a lot of, facilities have by-passed the smoke alarm system and simply gone to a heat sensor. Much more accurate and less prone to false alarms. Anyway, you would need to, as previously stated, inquire with your local fire marshall, and since it's a school most likely the campus Physical plant, to get the particulars. Being in Stand-by usually requires at least one person if not more, for a multi leveled structure, be on 'Fire watch' and maintain a fire watch log, for the time period during which the system is in standby.


Oh, and I think it sounds like a certain group of students deserve some serious retailiation....

[alyx92]

Oh, and I think it sounds like a certain group of students deserve some serious retailiation....

Ohhhhh yes they did....and they got one

[icewolf08]

Just a comment on the terminology generally used.

FOG, is usually a low laying smoke type effect, originally (in theatrical terms) created from dry ice fog machines that used dry ice (frozen CO2) dumped in a bucket/tub/55 gallon drum of hot water, then forced out on-stage with a fan system. The fog stay's close to the ground, usually deck to +2-3 ft. It dissipates rapidly and if dry ice is used, has the added concern for causing issues with low O2 levels in the orchestra pit, trap rooms, etc. so care needs to be taken with it's use. Recent systems attempt to use a chemical smoke to recreate the dry ice effect. One machine I saw had the chemical smoke run over ice cubes to a good effect.

SMOKE: Usually a dense cloud thru the air, does not lay as low to the floor.

HAZE: The choice for LD's wanting to see beams in the air, lighter particulates that hang in the air as compared to smoke.

Actually, you cannot generate smoke with a machine, to have a smoke effect to have to have combustion, thus making smoke a pyro effect. Smoke is a particulate matter in the air.

Fog and haze do not introduce any particulate into the air, fog and haze effects introduce vapor into the air. Fog does not imply a low lying effect. In fact most fog machines don't produce a low lying effect. Usually you need to specifically ask for a machine or chiller that can produce a low effect.

Haze is less dense than fog and the fluids and machines are designed to produce an evenly distributed look. They are designed to add atmosphere, not produce a cloud capable of obscuring sight.

Also of note, fog and haze can only be produced in white. Only smoke can be produced with color.

[SteveB]

Huh ?.

"Actually, you cannot generate smoke with a machine, to have a smoke effect to have to have combustion, thus making smoke a pyro effect. Smoke is a particulate matter in the air."

Sure you can. Go buy/rent a "Smoke Machine". Any number of companies sell and rent these,

Rosco -"Rosco's new Delta 3000 Fog Machine provides the tools to make fog and smoke " - Rosco US : Fog : Delta 3000

Le Maitre - Pyrotechnics | Special Effects | Fireworks Shows

High End F100 - "High End Systems AtmospheresŪ Fog Generating fluid is specially formulated to provide a dense, safe, water-based fog of a fine particulate size."

My experience with the F100 is that it's not a true theatrical fog machine of the dry-ice variety, but instead a smoke machine.

I stopped looking after that as I've seen and used a lot of different machines that produce fog and smoke. Not haze, but smoke.


"Fog and haze do not introduce any particulate into the air, fog and haze effects introduce vapor into the air.

CO2 is what is coming out of the dry ice fog machine. Those molecules of CO2 could be argued as being "particulates" (Solids or liquids in a subdivided state). Ditto haze. The light is reflecting off something. Particulates as a term is easier to understand then vapor.


"Fog does not imply a low lying effect. In fact most fog machines don't produce a low lying effect. Usually you need to specifically ask for a machine or chiller that can produce a low effect."

You can argue this all you want, but in general, if a designer or whomever asks for fog, they usually want theatrical fog, that low lying effect that is common in haunted houses, etc.... Dry ice fog machines, such as a Aquafog produce a low lying effect, typically about 2-3 ft above the deck surface. There are as well non-dry ice fog machines that attempt to duplicate the dry ice effect with varying results. Theatrical fog is not the kind of fog sweeping across San Francisco during the summer months.

"Haze is less dense than fog and the fluids and machines are designed to produce an evenly distributed look. They are designed to add atmosphere, not produce a cloud capable of obscuring sight."

Which is typically referred to as Smoke.