DF-50/American DJ Haze Generator

[traviss]

Our theater is in the market for a hazer and I've been shopping around.

To meet riders we would need to get a DF-50. But the issue with the oil residue could cause us some really big problems. I can justify the residue issues if the price of the DF-50 wasn't so steep, but since its expensive I'm looking at other options for now.

I was told that the system in the American DJ Haze Generator is the same or very similar to the DF-50 and even uses the same fluid. I'm not crazy about the ADJ brand name, but if the product does the job then I'm willing to give it a shot. The Haze Generator is also an oil based product, but at a sub $500 price tag used, it's much easier to deal with. Also, we won't be running this hazer for every show.

I already have a Martin water based hazer, and though it isn't perfect, it does work for when I need a thicker fog like haze. But I need a unit that will give me the very thin almost invisible haze effect, and that has a longer hang time than the water based hazers offer.

Does anyone have any opinions on the American DJ product? Or another product that produces the same quality effect as a DF-50 without the price tag?

Thanks

T

[len]

I have no opinion on the ADJ product. The Elation products I've used have been pretty decent, although I think they do some dumb things (like power cords off to the side in the DS250). I find that annoying.

Two other thots:

1. sometimes you can get by on a rider without the exact item, but sometimes you can't. The Van Halen brown M&M story comes to mind.

2. Consider the Radiance Hazer. Water based, about $1,200, and a very fine, dmx-able unit.

[EBB]

I have seen plenty of ADJ and Chauvet products that leave me going both ways on the products they make, leaving me to say no to most of the products they make. I can't say that I've ever used any of those products long term for over three years at a time.

But if I had to give a suggestion, Le Matre always makes good products. Depending on the space size, you can get something like a Neutron for smaller spaces. Or you can get something like a Radiance(now made sold by Ultratec) for somewhere in the $1200 range, but probably 800 used. I recommend both since I've personally had both of them and have been great work horses of my haze units.

[traviss]

Thanks for the replies.

Well, I normally don't make any production purchases without doing a ton of research before hand. But I'm on a tight schedule, so I decided to give the ADJ Haze Generator a try. I picked up one used on Ebay for under $400.

The American DJ stuff is usually fine for DJ's, but most of the time I find it can't stand up to actual production use. However, from what I've read and been told, this product (Haze Generate) has essentially the same insides as the DF-50, only mass produced in Asia. Everyone has opinions on the import stuff, including me, but given the internal parts of the DF-50 it could easily be reproduced at a much lower price point. There are some things that ADJ didn't bother with, like DMX integration for example. But a product like this should be more than fine running on a timer with timed bursts.

So in the end, even if the Haze Generator ends up being total crap, I can get 80% or more of my money back by selling on Ebay and can then look at finding a DF-50. But at savings of $1,600 with performance difference, I figured I had to at least try this product.

I'll update this post and let everyone know how things turn out and if it's a good product or not.

Thanks again.

T

[EBB]

Hope it works out for you. If you have the time, make sure you can open it up before even turning it on to see the condition of it before hand. I have had products come in with loose parts and whatnot. If it's used, I'd look for any burned parts or charred wires. And try to clean it when you can. that little bit of work can make those units go a bit longer with the little bit of love.

[MNicolai]

Re: DMX integration,

The DF-50 doesn't have DMX either. When I rent one, I use a relay module in my dimmer rack and remotely turn the hazer on and off by switching the circuit on and off. Works like a charm.

[derekleffew]

...The DF-50 doesn't have DMX either. ...

IIRC, it's about a $500 (MSRP) option.

From http://www.etcconnect.com/Community/forums/t/7485.aspx :

NEW DF-50 DMX OPTION
The DF-50 DMX version, now available, allows three modes of operation. This new DMX feature enables control of the DF-50 from a light board, from internal auto settings or from the standard manual On/Off. The DMX interface is fully USITT 1990 compliant featuring an address range of 1-512 and industry standard 5 pin XLR connectors. The DMX input is short circuit protected.
How the DMX and AUTO feature works
The DF-50 DMX uses a single address to provide proportional control. When the DF-50 DMX version is in the DMX or internal auto settings mode it operates on a 100 second duty cycle. These modes allow the user to set the DF-50 to cycle ON and OFF as a percentage of 100 seconds. For example if the unit is set to 60% the DF-50 will automatically turn ON for 60 seconds and OFF for 40 seconds until the user changes the setting or removes the power supply. When the power supply is disconnected from the DF-50 the settings for the most recent use remain stored for operation until the power supply is restored,

[MNicolai]

For $500, I stand corrected.

[traviss]

I'm actually planning on using a relay from a dimmer pack to control this product as well.

While there is the option to set the burst increment and timer via the remote control, I just can't bring myself to not have some control over the haze.

[traviss]

I've since received the American DJ Haze Generator, so given the reason I ordered it (claims that it was a cheaper version of the DF-50 tech), I'll go ahead and post a quick review so others who are in a similar situation as I was will have a bit more info.

First I'll give a little info on the intended use and the venue. The venue is a 1500 seat proscenium theater. We have 2-3 shows a week from April-December. The acts range from mostly country/bluegrass, all the way to rock and comedy.

We currently have a Martin Magnum water based hazer, that does it's job very well in the theater. I've never had an issue hazing the house with it so long as the air exchange system in the building isn't running full. The issue with the Martin hazer, as with any water based hazer that I've used, is the effect it creates. If an act is looking for a very "hazy" look (think grave yard in a horror movie) then it does an awesome job. However, as more and more of our acts are using higher end lighting systems, and as we upgrade our own lighting rig we have come to the conclusion that we need a haze system that will give us the beam/aerial effects that we're looking for with the lights, but while not creating too much of a "smokey" atmosphere within the theater.

We've had a few acts come in who were traveling with a DF-50 and really loved the product. It created the effect we were looking for, without the side effects of a smokey environment. However, being a small theater which doesn't upgrade all the time, we didn't have the budget for a $3,000 hazer.

Knowing that the DF-50 has been a staple in the professional lighting industry for a while now, and knowing that the technology used to create the effect wasn't super complex, I figured there had to be a alternate solution in the name of a "off brand" or knock off. When it comes to lighting I'm not big on knock-offs really, but the main mechanical properties of the DF-50 being pretty simple, I knew there would be another product on the market that would take advantage of the effect of the item and it's market reach, while offering a lower price point.

I should go ahead and let everyone know that our staff had already had the internal discussion about Oil based Haze vs Water Based Haze. We use both at our venue, each serves it's purpose and each has it's own set of pros and cons. The discussion about Oil vs Water is beyond the scope of this review.

I talked to a few different sales people, read quite a bit online and watched the online videos that are available and found that American DJ makes a product called the Hazer Generator that is essentially very similar to the higher end product and uses a lot of the same type of components. At less than $400 on Ebay, the savings of giving the Haze Generator a try were temping and in the end I figured it would be worth it to at least give it a shot.

I ordered the product from Ebay as I mentioned above. I purchased the item from a seller that carried both the hazer and the fluid that ADJ makes for it. I was told by several people that any fluid that works in a DF-50 will work in the Hazer Generator as well, but to play it safe I went ahead and ordered the official fluid for the machine.
After getting the hazer in on Thursday and having a good chance to test it both in a testing environment and in a smaller show and rehearsal, I think I've been able to form a pretty solid opinion on the product.

The item functions a lot like the DF-50. No heater, so no warmup time. Simply turn the machine on and it will instantly start producing haze. Like the DF-50, the Haze Generator doesn't come standard with a DMX interface. It does come with a 30ft wired remote control that you can use to control the burst time and increment of the haze, but that would not cut it for me. Unlike the DF-50. You can't purchase a DMX interface for the Haze Generator. Thankfully I had a few Chauvet dimmer/relay packs laying around, so I was able to hook up the pack to the machine and then run it through my DMX splitter as a relay and control the on and off of the product from my console. This worked well and would be an ideal solution to anyone in need of DMX control over this product.

The biggest issue that I was concerned about, and what in the end turned out to be the deciding factor in our use for the Haze Generator was the output. I do just want to let everyone know that, the Haze Generator does in fact function almost identically to the DF-50. It produces the exact same almost invisible "mist" effect that has made the DF-50 so popular with tours and theaters. Also, like the DF-50, the Haze Generator isn't a quite machine. While running it has a less than silent fan, and a motor which creates a sound similar to a small air compressor. It makes the product less than ideal for use during a performance, but the effect that the product creates has such a great hang time, you can literally run the machine for 15 minutes or so before the performance and the atmosphere will sustain for hours so long as the ventilation system of the building doesn't move the air too much.

In the end, I've decided that while I will give the Haze Generator my recommendation, It's output simply isn't enough to work for us and the size of our venue. 80ft high ceilings and a massive air exchange system are just too much for the Haze Generator to overcome. It does a nice job when used for only a stage area setting when I turn off the air exchange. But the time it takes to get the effect we need is too long and maintaining the effect would take constant use running of the product.

So, if you're primarily working in smaller venues (a few hundred or less) and are looking for an almost invisible haze effect that makes the light beams looks amazing then I'd say save yourself a lot of money and give this product a try. If you've been considering a DF-50 purchase you owe it to yourself to at least look into the Haze Generator. It really does produce the same effect, minus the output volume.

In the end, we're still on the market for a DF-50 and will be picking one up within the next few weeks. The DF-50 simply fits perfectly into our needs and having had it in the venue several times, we know it will produce exactly what we want. If I was personally ever working smaller gigs and needed a similar effect, I would not hesitate to take a long the American DJ Hazer Generator.