Pyro-like Fog Effects

[DarSax]

So I'm looking into buying a couple cheap, high-output fog machines to simulate some pyro flame effects. I'm looking to replicate this:

Via some quick dissipating fog and a couple of fire-colored lights on the floor. NOTE: I realize the shape of the fog won't follow the vertical nature of the picture. That's not important to me; I'm just trying to give an idea of which pyro effect I'm looking for.

So I was wondering if you guys had any suggestions about which company to go for? I won't be using these all that much in every day use, so DMX capability isn't that important.

I know that companies have come out with fog machines which have vertically-angled outputs, but that seems like kind of pointless to me--why can't you just put some PVC in front of the output and get the same effect, and then you aren't stuck with an awkward fogger for most uses?

These things hopefully won't be taking much wear and tear. I'm looking to get two, though if need be I'll get one and use a PVC Y-tube to split the output. There's a good chance I'm going to do what someone (sorry! I forget who) suggested earlier on these boards, using computer fans to quicken the output of the fog in the PVC, adding to the "pyro" quality of the stream.

Right now I'm looking at these:

Chauvet Hurricane 1050
Great looking output, price is good (I'm trying for under $100), option of wireless controller or even DMX converter interface. I have no experience whatsoever with Chauvet products besides their mini-bubble machine, however. Any advice on the quality?

American DJ Fog Storm 700
Okay so we all know ADJ is cheap for a reason. I haven't used any ADJ foggers though, is there quality pretty terrible, or is it bearable? But the price is good, the output is good, and it has the option of a wireless remote.

Jem/Martin and LeMaitre seem too pricey for what I'm looking for. But any suggestions? Thanksus!

[Van]

2 cent worth. Whatever you use be sure to build an adapter that allows air in at the connection to the fogger. If you've ever used a hose adapter on a 3600 or wahtever. you'll notice it is designed to stand off away from the foggers body. This design allows air to be introduced into the tube using a venturi effect. Without this added air input the fogger simply won't operate efficiently.
Second 2 cents. A freind of mine is the Master Carp on the tour of "Joseph and the amazing technicolor dreamcoat" they use a couple of "vornado" type fans to blow some rather big columns of fog out into the house towards he end of the show. You could probably adapt that idea into your pvc tubes < Or maybe even use Sona-tube for the diameter.> I'm not sure PC fans are high volume enough or high pressure enough to push the effect you're looking for.

[DarSax]

2 cent worth. Whatever you use be sure to build an adapter that allows air in at the connection to the fogger. If you've ever used a hose adapter on a 3600 or wahtever. you'll notice it is designed to stand off away from the foggers body. This design allows air to be introduced into the tube using a venturi effect. Without this added air input the fogger simply won't operate efficiently.
Second 2 cents. A freind of mine is the Master Carp on the tour of "Joseph and the amazing technicolor dreamcoat" they use a couple of "vornado" type fans to blow some rather big columns of fog out into the house towards he end of the show. You could probably adapt that idea into your pvc tubes < Or maybe even use Sona-tube for the diameter.> I'm not sure PC fans are high volume enough or high pressure enough to push the effect you're looking for.

So you're saying, at the point where the PVC would connect with the output of the fogger, leave that open a little bit, so air can be introduced? (If that is what you're saying, thank you very much; I wouldn't have known that/would have done it incorrectly)

As for the second, the output of the fogger seems to be pretty good (judging from videos of foggers with similar outputs), with the pc fans being only an addon. This is not to mention that the fog would only be travelling a good 5-7 feet or so, and I only want the columns to be about 5-10 feet high if possible (hence, quick dissipating).

[Van]

#1 yes you need a gap for the venturi effect, all that hot glycerin / water fog solution needs something to condense in and the comparatively cooler air sucked in from the open space provides just that.

#2 Oh ok 5-7 feet you should be fine. I think the fog your looking for is Roscos Stage and studio fog it's a lot faster dissapating then thier standard, great for smaller spaces and for use around Equity Actors.

just found a good piece of reference for you on the Rosco website here's an excerpt:

Ducting Fog
It is not always possible to place the fog machine near the exact location where the effect needs to occur. The answer is to use ductwork to direct the fog. Flexible ducting can be used, but it should be of heavy construction. Most dryer hose is too lightweight to stand up to the rigors of theatrical use. If needed, rigid PVC pipe can be used.
Whether flexible or rigid ductwork is used there are some points to remember. For most applications the minimum diameter duct used should be 4 inches. When fog is constricted, it tends to recondense into fluid reducing the output and creating an unwanted residue. Likewise, recondensation can occur if the ductwork is placed directly over the front of the fog machine. The aerosol is created when the "flashed" vapor mixes with fresh air. If flexible hose is used, an openwork frame should be used to keep an air space in front of the machine (see below). If rigid ductwork is used, simply keep the front of the machine 3-4 inches from the duct. If the fog needs to travel long distances in ductwork, a squirrel cage fan can be added. The fog should not come into contact with the fan blades. The air should be added through a "Y" connection.
Air With Fog
The output of fog machines tends to be fairly directional, so the use of a fan can help disperse the fog. The fan should be placed behind the machine so that the air can mix with the fog. Experiment by varying the output of the machine and the speed of the fan to achieve the desired effect. Note: Never direct the fog at a fan since the aerosol will break apart on the fan blades leaving an unwanted residue and reduced output.
Some equipment now offer compressed air to use in creating fog effects. This unique feature allows compressed air to be introduced right into the heat exchanger and, by displacing part of the fluid in the heat exchanger, the air can aerate the output of the machine. With a high volume of air (up to 35 psi) and a low output of fog fluid, the result is the increasingly popular "haze" effect. By alternating fog with short sharp bursts of air, a gunshot or cannon effect can be attained. These are just two examples of the many effects that compressed air can offer.

[DarSax]

So I found exactly what I want.

http://www.lemaitrefx.com/attachments/248.mpg

Except, without the cost of actually getting cryogenics or leMaitre. I'm basically trying to duplicate this effect with a simple fog machine, some pvc, and a couple fans.

[Van]

I think your can do it the way you are thinking with a fog machine a fan or two and mybe lit from below Might be really cool. I'd love to see pics when you get it all hooked up.

[Chris15]

Thought I'd throw in this little bit as well: There is a secondary reason for wanting an air gap between the fogger and the PVC. PVC is plastic. The fogger output nozzle gets quite hot. When hot, plastic melts or catches alight, both of which are neither pretty nor good for your health - it produces toxic fumes. So, that is another reason why an air gap is good.

[DarSax]

Going and proposing the addition to the budget for this today. I'm so heavily excited about it, I'm going to pretty much make sure it's going to happen.

(P.S. Van--show's not till April, heh)

[DarSax]

Update: Effect got okayed! This gon' rock.

Also, probably going to use A/C tubing instead of PVC, more flexible and cheaper.

Any tips on the foggers though, still?

[SHARYNF]

We use Martin Magnum 2000, works well, has optional dmx control

Sharyn

[Van]

We use Martin Magnum 2000, works well, has optional dmx control

Sharyn

That's a good solution just about any unit with a dmx control will be a great investment as it will greatly extend your remote-ability < I think I just invented a word >

[DarSax]

Yikes! But at $500 a pop it's just too expensive for my budget. I'm looking at maybe $200 for this project, tops. Don't get me wrong, that looks great, and apparently it's the "most requested fog machine in the world," but unless I get special permission from my budgeters, I can't afford it...

Edit: Can get it for $380 on eBay, good seller and the likes. Hmm...maybe I should be looking into this...

[SHARYNF]

I'd go with ebay or rent. these units are built like tanks and work well, the low end ones tend to be pretty cheaply built

Sharyn

[DarSax]

EXTREMELY glad to hear they're durable; I'm looking to buy because we'd use the machine for maybe 4-5 of our shows every year.

Excellent, this is turning out great. Thanks for the feedback, are there any other suggestions? The setup seems fairly simple (and workable)...

[SHARYNF]

As it comes there is a remote control that you can remove from the rear, and use standard xlr cable to extend the control, if you want DMX there is an optional module that plugs in there, instead, not very expensive if I recall.

I suggest you use Martins I fog, the unit holds 2.5 gallons, is heavy but has full support for a c clamp. I have found it very reliable. If you ever get a clog, you can just feed it distilled water.

Sharyn

[TechiGoz]

Have you looked into the Antari Range of Foggers? They have a huge selection of Fog, Haze, Mist, Whatever all for pretty decent prices. From the experience I have had with them, they last and are pretty good value for money.

Just a thought.

[soundlight]

Probably too late, but I found just the thing that you need.

Up-Fire Fogger

[DarSax]

Naw, I had seen those before--but I want to be able to reuse the fog machine, so I figured in most applications I'd rather have a front-firing machine than an up-firing machine, so I'd opt for the front-fire + dryer hose rather than going out and buying an up-firing one

[soundlight]

Well, the machine is advertised as being able to shoot sideways as well. Or at least that's what it says in the pic. And it shows pics of it sideways as well. Seems like it'd work both ways, and make a cooler upright effect. I'm actually thinking that a few of these would be a really good addition to our light show this next year at Bucknell...

[DarSax]

Hmmm, that be a dilemmma.

The machine looks great, by the way. Perfect, exactly what I'd want. DMX controllable, durable, great prices, dayumn.

Buuutt

It would mean that I'd have to buy two.
And though you can shoot it horizontally, it looks like it'd still have the same "volcano" effect, which won't be called for in all of our productions.


Yikes. This is a dilemma

[soundlight]

If you don't use the quick dissipating fluid, and you put the fogger just a little bit farther off stage, it won't make the sideways column spewing on to stage quickly. Also, if you put a fan in front of it when it is tipped sideways, even just a household box fan on a switched dimmer, you should be able to disperse it significantly. So, if you follow those practices when using it for standard fog machine duties, you should still be able to get the vertical shooting one.

On the note of fluids...use the Le Matire quick dissipating fluid when you use it pointing vertically, and a slower-dissipating fluid when you're using it sideways and want a longer hang time. Just a little afterthought.

[SHARYNF]

Mitch at Centerstage in Kentucky looks like he has a deal going for the magum 2000 with the dmx interface at 379 dollars which is a good deal

280061857893 is the ebay listing

Sharyn

[DarSax]

Yeah, I had saw that...looks great. I'll try and keep you guys posted, there's probably going to be a lot of theater politics in the decision about buying the fogger.

If I can't get the buy, I'll have to rent a normal one (like a generic rosco or something, my rental place doesn't advertise specifics) and hook it up like I would the magnum 2000.

[TupeloTechie]

hmm, if you've ever seen "the lion king" on broadway, they use this effect ALOT, they have them all over the stage, looks like you've already got if figured out, but ive seen those "up-fire" foggers, and they do work like a normal fog machine when there turned sideways, just don't use the quick dissipating fluid, as soundlight said.

[SHARYNF]

The direction of the outlet is more mechanical so not a problem, typically you don't want to turn the unit around too much for leaking problems, you can put a piece of pipe tubing on the end of the fogger output for direction control
On a big system you can actually pipe the system around, there are a few issues with making sure you have a way to drain any condensation
Sharyn