Dressing Room Lighting Problem: Cages for Bulbs?

[actition]

I am the part-time Facilities Manager for Artists Repertory Theatre in Portland. We are upgrading our upstairs dressing rooms to meet Equity standards, which requires cages around all exposed bulbs. I have asked around at different lighting fixture companies and none of them have any idea what I am talking about and usually try to sell me something that looks like it belongs on a ship. I checked another equity house, but the fixture they used cost $35/ft (not including the $32 a piece cages).
I am wondering if anyone would like to share with me what kind of lighting you have in your dressing rooms and how you solved the problem of getting cages mounted around them. I don't have a lot to spend but it is important that I do what is necessary.
Sincerely,
Tyler

[avkid]

Go to an electrical supply house and ask them.
The best I found so far is $27.
http://www.elights.com/invaplig.html

If you can convince management to shell out the cash, use LED bulbs instead of incandescent. They absolutely do not require cages and are generally not glass, but hard plastic.

[actition]

Thank you for the link, unfortunately those are the cages I can't use. I need something on a bar or strip for next to the mirrors, and these aren't really applicable for that use. The LED idea was interesting, but you're right it probably is expensive.

Tyler

[icewolf08]

You could bend chicken wire around the entire row of lights and then fasten it down.

[avkid]

The LED idea was interesting, but you're right it probably is expensive.

$15 per lamp.
But, you'll be retired by the time they're dead.
They might also be eligible for federal grants for a "green" installation.

[gafftapegreenia]

Can you describe the lamp base. I know what your talking about, I just need to track them down.

MUST they be metal, or can they be plastic?

[gafftaper]

Thank you for the link, unfortunately those are the cages I can't use. I need something on a bar or strip for next to the mirrors, and these aren't really applicable for that use. The LED idea was interesting, but you're right it probably is expensive.
Tyler

Take a closer look at this one from the link Phil posted. It looks like it's got a base on it that you can run conduit right into. If that's right you could just build your own strip with short pieces of conduit between boxes.

[David Ashton]

I would have to query the idea of led lights for dressing rooms.If make-up was applied in this sort of light it may then be wrong in stage light.

[avkid]

I would have to query the idea of led lights for dressing rooms.If make-up was applied in this sort of light it may then be wrong in stage light.

Are you serious?
The make alot of different color temperatures.
And the flourescents in every other dressing room are great too.
(note sarcasm)

[spiwak2005]

We have flourescents in our dressing rooms (duh - it's a school) but I have had several touring groups complain that it wasn't stage lighting. So that's why "allthingstheatre" IS serious!!

[derekleffew]

How odd that this item is so hard to find. They're in every dressing room in every theatre in America. Surprisingly, I found a patent http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4264946.html for something so ubiquitous, but cannot find the fixture. I suspect they no longer meet code, but I don't know what the alternative is. A medium screwbase CFL, in 3200K, would still need a cage, unless, by today's code, it must be a glass belljar.

[gafftapegreenia]

How odd that this item is so hard to find. They're in every dressing room in every theatre in America.

I KNOW! They're everywhere and yet I can't figure out where they come from.

[Van]

Yeah, Tyler and I have been beating our heads against our desks for months now. Equity says, Light source must be comprable to stage lights, no flourescents allowed. You can use standard incandecents , but technically a standard incandescent needs a cage for shatter/burn saftey. I want to mount a buch of ceramic base units with 60 watt bulbs and then put these over them
http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm/...5/category/148

The only big problem being these look like yellow plastic cages, so they be flimsy and we'd hae to paint them.

[avkid]

What about those bulbs made out of something like auto glass but with an adhesive on it that doesn't shatter?

[avkid]

Alright, use those box mount fixtures I found before with some raceway or flexi conduit.
Kind of like this.


You will not get out of this cheaply.

[derekleffew]

To misquote/misuse an old Chicago (the band) song: "ControlBooth needs you, STEVETERRY, please tell us what to do."

Steve, is this the first time you've ever been compared to Harry S Truman? You kids in school, pay attention in history class! Seriously, every educational experience becomes important at some point to a designer--even the quadratic formula. And spelling and grammar always count, also.

[derekleffew]

...Equity says, Light source must be comprable to stage lights, no flourescents allowed. ...

Van, Van, Van. I'm calling your mother.

Does AEA take into consideration the fact that CFLs today come in 3200K? I bet you could win that grievance. Whether or not the Rule Book allows them, CFLs would need more protection against accident breakage than standard A-lamps. I'm positive codes prohibit even "shatter-proof" bulbs unless used with a wire guard.

[derekleffew]

I want to mount a buch of ceramic base units with 60 watt bulbs and then put these over them
http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm/...5/category/148

The only big problem being these look like yellow plastic cages, so they be flimsy and we'd hae to paint them.

Don't do that, Van. If "they be flimsy" what good are they? And you don't want to paint [6x or 9x (# of stations)] plastic cages. ST will be along soon to lead us into the light from our black-outted conundrum.

And thanks ever so for leading me to yet another fun site to spend my money on stuff that just clutters up the house. My SO is ready to deck you!

[Van]

..................Van, Van, Van. I'm calling your mother........................................

Please don't she's an ex- english teacher. Besides, I was having a rough day.

...................................And thanks ever so for leading me to yet another fun site to spend my money on stuff that just clutters up the house. My SO is ready to deck you!

Yeah, I found that place completely by accident. The most popular phrase around here is now, " No, Van we don't need that! and don't get the kids to beg either!"

[gafftapegreenia]

Finally, I think I've found something that will work.

http://store.jbn-duraline.com/category/103

[avkid]

Yeah, but they don't mount on a wall.

[derekleffew]

I believe he was referring to just the wire cage in the center picture. If he could take the cage and affix it to a flanged porcelain med. screwbase socket he'd have what every dressing room currently has. He could use 1) 60-100W A-Lamps, 2) coiled compact florescent lamps, 3) LED-based A-lamp, or 4) I have a package in my hand from HomeDepot:
On the front of the package: "n:vision Soft White A19 60W equivalent." "Save up to $37 in energy costs per lamp." "Lasts 7 years. Warranty*." "800 lumens" "*8000 life (Hours)." On the back of the package: "Mini Spiral lamp, Fluorescent Bulb, 120volt-14watt, 2700k." "This device is not intended for use with emergency exit fixtures or emergency exit lights."

I suspect the last statement is included because the lamp takes up to 120 seconds to attain full brightness. This is my only gripe thus far with them, that and the fact they are not dimmable. Every switch controlling a permanent fixture in my home has been replaced with a slider dimmer, of course. But this bulb works fine in my bedside table 360Q lamp, and I bet it would be a great makeup mirror bulb as well. One caveat--Don't believe "All fluorescents radiate less heat." This lamp measured 165°F surface temperature after 15 minutes of operation.

Back to the point: Seems wasteful to buy a "drop light" just for its cage, but i'm sure the unused bits would eventually be deployed in another project. I'm envisioning a total of 8@ 4x4x2" hex boxes (3 vert, 2 horz, 3 vert) for Light Devices at each mirror, plus a local switch and GFCI outlet, so a total of 10 boxes connected by 1/2" conduit nipples, or for a much more elegant look, a paintable Wiremold-type product. Finding the proper porcelain socket with the extended neck to accept the metal collar of the cage may be a problem. I would purchase prototypes and build a mock-up to get written permission from my electrical and fire inspectors before proceeding.

As I stated before, I suspect wire cages do not meet current codes, which is why they're so hard to find. Now someone go search for the correct flanged porcelain socket with extended neck that would accept the wire cage and post what you find.

[gafftaper]

Finally, I think I've found something that will work.
http://store.jbn-duraline.com/category/103

Click on the PDF brochure and scroll down. You'll find that you can order several styles of steel cages. Problem solved I believe.

[derekleffew]

Hold your horses there Gaff, it ain't over yet. Yes, pages 13 & 14 of the pdf do show the cages available separately. Now show me a compatible flanged socket. I'm waiting.

Then prove to me both meet all current codes for use in proximity to humans, or at least actors/dancers. [I've never needed steveterry so badly, even when my expression crashed 3 hours before a show. (Power supplied died, we had another next door, crisis easily averted.)]

Hey, Gafftaper, I seem to recall I heard somewhere that you're building a theatre, right? Care to share the architect's/electrical contractor's specifications for your make-up mirror lighting? If it's not confidential/proprietary, that is.

Here we are, a bunch of butch theatre electricians, all worrying about make-up mirror lights that we'll most likely never use. That gives me a little giggle.





The symbol "" above indicates derek being (attempting to be) facetious/humorous.

[gafftapegreenia]

Here's a base for your cages:
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...entPage=family

[derekleffew]

By George I think she's got it. Once more; The rain in Spain...

Now, just the minor matter of proving our design meets codes...Bueller? Anyone? Anyone?

[avkid]

I think with a closed surface mount box and semi rigid conduit you should be good to go.(in most places)
It never hurts to ask an inspector or licensed electrician first.

[gafftaper]

I'd suggest ordering one of each. Taking a trip to Home Depot to pick out the fixture that fits best, then a stop in the office of an electrician or building inspector to see if it's ok.

As for what my dressing rooms will look like, that's one of the many pieces of information I haven't been given. I have a ground plan and that's about all. Everything else has been gleaned from desperate e-mails and phone calls to designers. It's a long sad story... but hey they are at least paying me now!

[derekleffew]

Congratulations. Now as the paid facility technical director, doors should be swinging wide open for you. So Tuesday (someone told me tomorrow, Monday, is a National Holiday) you'll call the architect and demand a complete set of all his drawings for your building to date?


Then you'll let us know the intimate details of your make-up mirrors?

[gafftapegreenia]

Oh, wait, Monday is Columbus Day? Great, another "holiday", like Sweetest Day. Darn, that means I'll have to wait another day for my new gobo posters from Apollo. Some people put movie posters on their dorm walls, me.....

That also means that Tuesday is Leif Erikson Day.

[gafftaper]

Congratulations. Now as the paid facility technical director, doors should be swinging wide open for you. So Tuesday (someone told me tomorrow, Monday, is a National Holiday) you'll call the architect and demand a complete set of all his drawings for your building to date?
Then you'll let us know the intimate details of your make-up mirrors?

I've already asked several times. The division Dean considers me a T.D. and wants me to have the involvement of a real T.D. in the construction project. The facilities department and contractor seem to see me as just another annoying faculty member who thinks he deserves special treatment. So I'm a T.D. charged with spending well over $400K in the next few months, but I still haven't seen all of the blueprints. It's a little nuts.

Oh and Charc... last I read it's more like "slaughter 1 million and let another 19 million + die of small pox day". Did you know that the diseases spread so fast that by the time the first white people arrived on the west coast, they found village after village with just scattered remains.

By the way for anyone who might want to learn the truth about American History. Pick up a copy of "A People's History of the United States" by Howard Zinn for about $20 or get it from the Library. I think the guy is a little too cynical at times about people's intentions. But it's full of real facts that are often glossed over or even cut from text books. I bet you were taught something about the pilgrims facing "hard times" before the Indians taught them to plant corn. Hurray! I bet it didn't mention that some of the Pilgrims dug up dead bodies to eat because they were incompetent and spent their time searching for non existent gold instead of planting crops (That wouldn't go over so well in the 3rd grade Thanksgiving pageant). My favorite thing about teaching U.S. history was my special Pilgrim debunking Thanksgiving lecture.

[Van]

Hey Everybody!,
Thanks for the info, I'll tell Tyler, oops Actition, to read up on this thread as soon as I see him. He's a busy boy nowdays. He's currently in House and Garden, and still doing the Facilities Maintenance thing. With all the re-furbishments etc., he's "wornded - out" < as my daughter says >

[derekleffew]

he's "wornded - out" < as my daughter says >

"wornded - out"? I guess we know who her daddy is. Maybe you should send her here so I can teach her English. On second thought, maybe she should spend more time with Grandma--the person, not the Lighting Control System.

[gafftaper]

On second thought, maybe she should spend more time with Grandma--the person, not the Lighting Control System.

DANG IT Derek you beat me to it!

Although I did like the Ma pun... I probably wouldn't have come up with that.

[actition]

Thanks all,

I think this collaborative effort may have solved it.

Cheers,

[SteveB]

Having just purchased $4000 worth of electrical parts for our new and improved portable make-up tables (which the head carp. has yet to get around to building - 30 tables ea. with 4 mirrors), I have some - late to the party - thoughts.

1) My understanding of the US Nat'l Electrical Code is that all makeup table require cages. I have no idea if there are allowances for LED, Fluorescent or Lo-Vo, but in any case would (and am using) 15w incandescent A lamps due to color rendition as well as to alleviate heat.

2) You can get porcelain medium screw base lamp holders that mount on 4" octagon boxes and have collars for cages.

3) Metal cages were once very popular on construction sites to prevent damage as well as theft. Then they went over to reverse screw base lamps to alleviate the theft issue, then to yellow plastic cages as well as HID style lamps for energy efficiency. Thus metal cages are hard to find. They are available (Appleton ?) - but I have to go to work tomorrow and look up what our supplier gave us. I know they were $9 EACH, which really surprised me.

Steve B.

[EricE]

The comments about the cages being hard to find (as others pointed out, you see them on TV and in movies all the time!) peaked my interest so I started to so some searching and I did come across these:

Cole Lighting

Amazingly that seems to be the only purpose-built fixture that is easily findable. Several came up from across the pond in the UK but they didn't have cages - must not be a requirement there?

Now that you can get LED's in about any color temperature, I'm a little surprised there isn't someone out there making an LED strip for use with mirrors.

I also found this:

Aluminum Lens Guard - Hazardous Location Lighting Accessories - Hazardous Location Fixtures - Lighting : Grainger Industrial Supply

But I don't think it will work with a typical porcelain socket, it appears to be designed to mate with a particular explosion-proof housing (the bulb is completely enclosed in an airtight and watertight glass cover). The cost of the explosion proof fixter it's designed to attach to would certainly make it cost prohibitive!

[techieman33]

We use something kind of like this with a 34w A19 in it. LED's still aren't ready to go into a dressing room, they're good for straight out of the lamp flood, but still don't spill out of the sides like a normal incandescent lamp or even a cfl.

[DuckJordan]

not to mention they don't do well for color. One of the biggest reasons why there are so many lamps in dressing rooms is for when the actor/actress is putting on makeup they can tell where issue areas are based upon what would be seen under stage conditions. LED's are still too spikey in the levels to do anything like that.

[cdub260]

Just a bit of a necropost here, but I'll go ahead and reply anyway.

Bulb guards are incredibly easy to find. McMaster-Carr carries them. Grainger also has a limited selection.


McMaster-Carr


Grainger

Personally, I like the guards from McMaster-Carr better. I actually need to order a few more for some lights on a set this season. I ran out about two weeks ago.