Site Contest

[ship]

" I am suggesting the posting of a Design (Lighting or otherwise.) and then discuss the work."

I like converting such things to PDF, it's much easier to read by all.

Your drafting idea is kind of like what all of my fellow design students and I did with each other's designs in school, but I would concentrate upon presenting the design concept and how it would all go together more than the mechanical drafting, photo morgues and other parts of it all in any such contest.

When projects were due, we all got together for class discussion to rip apart/critique each other's design presentation. There was some useful impute with such discussions but eventually, the more time you had to put into effort on a design above what any other student had time or ability for, the more your design would be trashed by the class - like it or not because they were intimidated by it and in some sense thought it would harm thier grades on a bell curve. That's good and bad for other designers to critique, but I don't know if I would recommend offering a competition and winner upon viewing a more mechanical artistic design concept that is going to be different in each theater, skill level and play type. Than especially not with just seeing the drafting for it and not the realized project, much less the sketches, fabric samples, model, etc.

I for instance started drafting at a college level back in 1982. By the time I got to advanced projects in design during college in 1993, I was already drafting in ink at archival quality much better than even the instructors could do, and was on AutoCadd as well such as it was - even though the theater department was not ready for Cadd yet. Back in high school, I even passed up a scholarship in architecture to presue the theater life of adventure. In those 10+ years there was only one instructor and one student that did drafting as well as I became able to do. The instructor tought me and the other student spurred me on to not getting lazy with technique if I wanted the 9.8 grades instead of settling with 9.6 types.

What did it all mean? Was the fact that I could draft better than my friends anything to do with the merit of my artistic ideas or the goal of the drafting to present the ideas to scale good or bad?

Though I don't use it much anymore, It still should not be that bad. My drafting on or off computer - and I'm really rusty at AutoCadd, in the end is not the whole design. You don't have to be good at orthographic projection to have a good idea for a show. Some of my best designs were more or less all concept and sketches without any drafting. So what is there to rate each other on drafting technique, how well laid out the leader lines are? If there is bullet holes on the page showing from a compass? That's all good technique but nothing about art.

Now here might be something of interest. Dave or his chosen director for a show chooses a show and a type of theater. We all read it and sign up for a part of it's design team in your field of interst. Than each part of the design team, costumes, Props, Lights, Set, Sound competes against other people in that area of it in looking to be the designer winner for that department for this show to be debated about and voted upon for a prize by all and by the director Dave or who ever he elects. Perhaps even a TD category later to keep the designers within budget and physical boundrys for reality. Heck, I can even raid my storage closet for a few prizes if it helps. The drafting part of a show is just mechanical. How about a contest based upon the concept and style of design that could be supplimented by things like pictures out of a magazine and links to other ideas and materials intended to be used. Perhaps some drafting or sketches for those able, but certainly only as part of the presentation of a concept.

Dave sets something like Trojen Women for a play, and gives a basic concept for his production to all. From there you can post specific questions about his overall vision for the play on line, (I see purple) but specific questions or ideas for your design go by direct mail to him or others so as not to effect how the rest see their individual concepts of it play out until it's time to present them, debate and vote.

[MissD]

ship, that sounds like so much fun! And what a learning experience, too. But are we dreaming? Can this actually happen on a computer and not face to face? I am not well versed in computer technology, but this sounds like a complicated business.

[ship]

A more fleshed out way that I might do a on-line design contest.

We start with a play. It should be one that the chosen director/coordinator of this game knows a bit about and feels competent that they would more or less in real life like to and be able to direct it given approval by the Artistic Director - Dave. Note, the person acting as director in running that part of the game or individual designer teams doesn’t even have to be Dave. With some oversight from someone else say from the pro staff/terrible trio and others, acting as a Technical Director for a team to say yes and no on the more technical aspects and ideas, things could be kept balanced, fun and safe to progress on a professional level for all without over taxing our webmaster or each other.

At the same time a design that goes from idea to rough concept to conceptualized realized production or at least up to the end of the design meetings for it, could be more close to reality in that a design could develop over a period of time by interplay between the director and designer.

Designers in designing a show do not live in a vacuum, their design is very much a coordination with others. Forum members, especially those that want to become stage managers would find it not only interesting to attempt a design for a show, but run a design contest in being the director. Both areas of tech will to some extent become part of a stage manager’s future anyway and running such a contest would be good practice for how a director develops a show - much less how in many situations how the Stage Manager assists the director if in no other way but as a politician.

Getting beyond that, there could be more than one director and design team composed of each type of designer competing against other teams as a more or less group prize for the best show design package that would take the design past the interplay a designer has with the director in coming up with a design and into a even more realistic relationship an entire production design team has with all parts of the show’s design when they work together for a show. The set designer decides that they want to use a translucent panel up stage and the director likes the concept of the shadow play going on with action behind a screen. They now have to work it out with the lighting designer how to light such an area and the costume designer to create the shadow effect with the actor’s costume and shape as a for instance of how a design could grow and one part of a design influence other parts of that same show’s design. Or the set designer is having a problem coming up with a good way to design for multiple scenes that take place in different locations and is appropriate to the type of show done and space it’s done in. Perhaps the sound designer, director, etc. during discussion, if not director or TD could suggest a solution for it that the designer could build upon.

Design meetings for developing an entire show could use the Chat room part of this website for a live discussion, and the Private message part of it to given messages can easily be sent to the entire design team to discuss more technical ideas and co-ordinate a unified design that meets up with the director’s vision for the play similar to real life. (There would need to be a way to do private messages to a group of people that isn’t public, instead of just individuals.) You as designer come up with an idea, you bounce it off the director’s head in a Private Message before you get too far with it, than during the Live Chat production meeting, present that idea or discuss other things in a live setting with the entire staff. Each team can also be given it’s own discussion topic area apart from the other teams as a part of the general forums’ discussion heading. Something such as “Design Game - X play, team 1” as opposed to other subject headings such as “Lighting or Sound.”

A normal design team has at least a month from first production meeting to the time hammers start swinging. This could be the game length for the initial game to see how it works out. It might be better to extend that time to give everybody more time to both give their best effort in a design and still pass English at school given the teams have the patience to stick it out that long.

As designers and directors are doing research and coming up with, much less working out with others a design concept in their area of design say in the first two weeks, the Artistic Director/Production Manager Dave could and should look in on and be kept informed about what’s going on for each team in how a show is progressing and be given status reports on the progress from each team by the directors and TD - a staff representative that’s apart from the design team in representing not only the production but the theater company/this website and it’s ability to technically pull off what’s designed or stay focused on the goal. In designers coming up with concepts, interplay between the TD and the various designers could also become part of something interesting as the TD with more experience could lend advice in how to do things and limit or at least focus a design into what’s technically better. Eventually, even the TD position could be taken on by the contestants also perhaps even with a pro-staff advisor for it, but for now it’s best off run by people that have been around a while.

Given this more design team approach to designing a show, it would also be easier to pull off on-line and be fun to publically read and keep up with what other design teams are doing when in competition for designing the same show by reading each teams discussion forum columns amongst groups as long as it’s only the design team that has impute on the show’s design (too many cooks if others start muddying up the waters on that team’s discussion or even off it in the general discussion area.) Such a public viewing of the teams progress could be interesting as long as other teams are not stealing ideas and concepts per say from other teams - another job of the TD and director in keeping the game on track. Otherwise it might be necessary to make each team have a private topic that other design teams cannot look into to keep it fair and individual. Less fun but better in keeping each design unique. Once the game is over, it would be fun to be able to see how the other teams handled the design, but not until than. Such a discussion format would enable the members of a design to better discuss and present things that otherwise is too difficult to present in the chat room or by private messages.

Once the design team has it’s total design, or runs out of time, the entire show is presented with each designer and director from a team giving a presentation to the entire theater company or in this case the other members of this forum. At the conclusion, the best design for a show could be voted on as per the way this forum’s normal poll works with discussion or critiques about why one votes for one design over another posted below the vote. This way, the best design can be better judged as not only a popularity contest, but by the remarks and critiques of each production team’s presentation which could have a consequential effect on how good a production is when realized.

Nuts and bolts of how to do this: Dave acting as artistic director is given plays to choose from and he picks the best one for each game. Sorry Dave, perhaps someone else can do the leg work in researching which play is best and most interesting to work on and advise you. Any Dramaturgs out there? They could also be interesting resources for help on shows much less for choosing a play.

Once the play is decided upon, each of us wishing to take part in the contest reads it and does a Private Mail very initial design concept to Dave or who ever he chooses to form up the teams. That person from a very initial assessment of designer, director and matching concepts or styles assigns directors and designers to teams for a production design. That’s another area forum members can look into if they don’t quite feel ready to design a show but want to take part and learn a bunch. Being able to do research on anything is a key ability to have in this business.

At the same time as Dave is choosing a show, the TD’s get together and decide upon a theater space to be used such as by choosing one off Stagespecs.com, and come up with a budget and inventory for each show that all design teams will realize their design with. You want a $10,000.00 mantel that’s just perfect for your design from Morgan Distribution, sorry but that’s outside of the budget. You can use one of many we have in Controlbooth’s theoretical stock - which is easy enough to show examples of, or the designer gives the TD a short discourse in how that perfect mantle could be built using budgeted materials and shop manhours. Some areas of the stock inventory will not be able to be pre-printed such as a complete props list but we could wing it. I for instance in my notes somewhere still have a complete gel, platform, flat, and fixture inventory from a few spaces I worked with as I’m sure JoJo and Wolfe might also have similar inventories pre-printed. Otherwise, students would be very helpful in sending us sample inventories especially for props and costumes to work with such as your own theaters’ which would be more comfortable to work with for students anyway since you know what you have and can see it. What, you don’t want to use my Bantam Superspot or can’t envision what the blue pierglass looks like?

Moving beyond the show design, various designers could work with their TD in coming up with dimmer/control channel assignments for cues and even balancing a load for the design, much less if so interested other forms of design/construction realization that could be worked out on AutoCadd and other ways and I’m sure directors have paperwork to do besides just coordinating things with the production staff to realize their picture. But remember, the drafting part of this all is at least in my opinion only a means to an ends, and since we all have lives outside the forum, it might be easier at least for now just to keep this to perhaps links and photos for graphic ideas on stuff. Scan an image from a magazine that graphically shows the look you are going for with the lighting, or sketch up something such as a rough design or storyboard to present.

As for various skill levels, given a production design staff, it will go a long way into balancing out the various skill levels of the entire design team. Or if enough people are interested we could have one contest for high school and one for college level people. Say the sound designer has never really designed sound for a show, much less researched it for a show. The rest of the team especially the TD and director could point them in the direction to start, and help them along. There could also be assistant designers for shows. Say a high school person helping a college person design, or better yet the college person choking it up and learning how to work under someone else by assisting the high schooler do a design without leading them by the nose thru the design. Helping design a show diplomatically is by far different than telling someone how to do it and is a skill that must be mastered, for that reason, college kids could be well served in giving the kids at least the first chance in this game if it isn’t two different skill levels used. If nothing else, people that don’t yet feel ready to get a realized design on a large scale can assist a designer in getting a feel for it themself, much less even play the production team’s dramaturg in assisting the entire crew with ideas and research. The assistant designer could also take over for a designer should something happen that they need to leave the game. Otherwise other members not taking part could join the team and with access to what’s already been developed, and quickly get up to speed without over taxing them or holding back the rest of the teams progression too much.

Finally, if the first game were to work out well, it would be a unique thing that not only sets this website apart from others, something Dave has been looking for, but could realistically be used in school especially college for special credit if not class specialized projects in design or intern type class credits. If the first game works out, I’m sure your school’s advisor can read the game’s rules and guidelines once finalized than also contact any of us on the “pro-staff” as it were if necessary and we could lend our industry experience for accreditation of this design challenge that would be sufficient to keep it educational and worth credit. It’s certainly not much different than working with interns on a professional show for credit in school. If necessary I and I’m sure other pro staff members have been responsible for the interns on a show and done grading them in class credit before, this could work much the same.

How’s it sounding so far? This is a possible foundation for the game. Now it’s time for everyone else wishing to take part to improve upon what I laid out. The more impute into how this works in the pre-planning stages, the better the game and more chance it will be successful.

Want Controlbooth swag? Yea, you will probably need to pay at least something for it or the FedEx charges alone will cause Dave conniptions. But perhaps in order to get the swag, you need to be a game team member. In order to get the special swag, you need to win. I would hate to see this website get too linked up with the whole Paypal type thing however so let’s downplay the swag for now at least until Dave is ready for it.

[wolf825]

FWIW, when considering plays--should probably start out simple and well known (ex: Godspell) and then work into sets and heavy concept shows(Working or West Side) that require a lot of different ideas to be tossed about.

-wolf

[ship]

PS. - notes

On the reports to Dave, he could act as if the host for Junkyard Wars or Trading Spaces in giving color commentary on the game and since it would be best if members from other teams can’t read what is going on with the other team, Dave could fill them in a bit as a news reporting type thing to keep the suspense up and the competition heated.

Dave given time could also look into the chat and private messages on the game and insert or open them up for reading after the game is over to help fill in the blanks of what’s going on.

On the final design presentation, there should be a way to post pictures with the concept similar to how tutorials normally work. Could get computer technically difficult but it would make for something that looks better and is easier to understand.

[dvsDave]

Originally Posted by ship

On the reports to Dave, he could act as if the host for Junkyard Wars or Trading Spaces in giving color commentary on the game and since it would be best if members from other teams can’t read what is going on with the other team, Dave could fill them in a bit as a news reporting type thing to keep the suspense up and the competition heated.

I am really liking this idea!! :D A sort of "Theater" Wars held online!

A play (actually a musical) popped into my mind that is incredibly flexible on the props and set, heavy on lighting and sound, and does incorporate some fun special effects that can be as simple or as complex as your imagination (and budget) allows!!

The musical in question? Starmites

It's a sort of Comedy Rock Musical and the design notes call for a very rock feel to the stage... exposed lighting, obvious speakers, etc...

Originally Posted by StoryLine

*NOTE: the words in ALL CAPS are the songs that deal with this part of the story

Shy teenager Eleanor has built a fantasy world around the characters in the science fiction comic books she collects. Much to the distress of her mother, she has learned to avoid the pains of growing up by escaping into fantasy, imaging herself to be an unrecognized superheroine. (SUPERHERO GIRL) Alone in her bedroom on planet earth, Eleanor is drawn into the conflict between Shak Graa, the arch-creep of chaos, and the Starmites, guardian angels of Innerspace. The Mites and their heart-throb captain, Space Punk, explain the situation: only Eleanor, who is really the pre-ordained savior of the universe, can save the earth from destruction. (STARMITES)

She and the Starmites team up to find "The Cruelty," a musical instrument of mind-bending power, to keep it from the clutches of Shak Graa. (AFRAID OF THE DARK) In the gloom of Shreikwood forest, Eleanor tries to calm the frazzled gang with an earthly lullaby. (LITTLE HERO) The sleeping Mites are abducted by a squadron of winged women with dangerous hair-dos. (ATTACK OF THE BANSHEES) The would-be heroes are brought before Diva, tempestuous and long suffering Queen of the Banshees. (HARD TO BE A DIVA)

Diva, who is guardian to the mind-zapping Cruelty, needs one of the Starmites to wed her sweet but gawky daughter Bizarbara. Meanwhile Space Punk and Eleanor discover a dawning attraction. (LOVE DUET - BY YOUR SIDE) Diva's daughter also falls madly for Space Punk. To save his comrades from a torture "that will make internal hemorrhaging look like a picnic," Punk agrees to marry Bizarbara. (BIZARBARA'S WEDDING) At the last minute, he refuses, declaring his eternal love for Eleanor. (MILADY)

To comfort her rejected daughter, Diva magically transforms Bizarbara into a dead-ringer for Eleanor. (BEAUTY WITHIN) Punk now thinks he is to marry Eleanor. To celebrate the nuptials, Diva allows Trinkulus, the lizardly Starmite mascot, to play the mysterious "Cruelty." As he performs, Starmites, Banshees, and even Diva are caught in its hypnotic spell. (THE CRUELTY STOMP) Shak Graa captures the Cruelty and Bizarbara (who he mistakes for Eleanor). To become Master of Earth, he must sacrifice the earth child. Devastated, Diva and the Starmites, inspire the real Eleanor to find Shak Graa and rescue innocent Bizarbara. (REACH RIGHT DOWN)

In the Sacrificial Lab, Bizarbara voluntarily sacrifices herself to save the earth. Eleanor appears and, backed by the Starmites and the wounded Space Punk, fights Shak Graa's Cruelty with the power of her own inner strength. (IMMOLATION) With Shak Graa destroyed, it is revealed that Eleanor is indeed the legendary Milady, Diva's true daughter. Bizarbara, is united with her real mother on earth, and both worlds rejoice that harmony is restored. (All is not perfect, however: Shak Graa, too, has escaped to earth.) (FINALE - IT WASN'T A DREAM)

Props: Obviously, the Cruelty... a unique prop that will need to be designed and fabricated, there is an incredible throne/chair that the Diva must descend from, it calls for the banshee's to be holding wicked looking staffs

Costumes: A largely creative effort that may involve research into costumes used in science fiction shows. Example, the Banshee's are a "winged women" and the Starmites are supposed to have a light armor on of sorts.
Another interesting fact is that Eleanor and Bizarbara are played by the same actress and Eleanor's mom and the Diva are also roles both played by one actress.

(although, since costumes is the one aspect of the site that we don't really cover, we may decide not to include that in the competition)

Lighting: Fun, Fun, Fun!! A chance to really have some fun and use a LOT of colors.... the openness of the sets really will allow you to be quite creative with lighting angles. This play has the potential to be able to use the lights as set pieces with the right application of hazers and/or fog.

Sound: Lots of interesting and unusual sound effects... you must come up with the horrible sound of the Cruelty and all the associated sound effects for the magic used and there are several background loops that you must create. One examble is to create a dark and creepy sound in Shriekwood forest and another effect for the same forest that's not so creepy (maybe even light-hearted) for after the song, AFRAID OF THE DARK.

Set: There are five main settings, Eleanor's bedroom where the play begins and ends, a place in the beginning where eleanor meets up with Space Punk and the Starmites, Shriekwood forest where the Banshee's hang out, The main hall of the Diva, and the bedroom of Bizarbara (Diva's daughter)

If this is a play that people would be interested in, please let me know! or if you have another idea, also let me know!!

[Jo-JotheSoundDog]

Dave, just my quick opinion on this show. While it sounds like a fun show and all, maybe you should consider a non-musical for the first show. I know at least down here in sunny FLA, that this is not a sound track that they carry in the music stores, so it would be an amazon order $14.99 + S&H. And then there is the expense of finding the actual book which upon a quick search I cannot seem to find more than the website listing the song lyrics.
I know I might sound like the ole fuddy duddy trying to take the fun out of this, but I think for this to be as beneficial as possible to the HSers, we need to start with the script analysis and how a show is put together professionally. I have seen many a high school build sets as closely to the little groundplan in the back of the Samuel French script and then follow all the printed stage directions verbatim. It wasn't until I got into college that I learned that these were the way it was originally done. They are not the law of how the show has to be done. And by learning how to read a script and creating a non-influenced picture of a set in your head is a very important skill.
And when it comes to musicals you need to read all the words a couple of times, get up eith an image and a concept and then hear the music, before any ideas should even be put to paper.
But I love this idea for this little contest thing.

[dvsDave]

Originally Posted by J0-Jo

I know at least down here in sunny FLA, that this is not a sound track that they carry in the music stores, so it would be an amazon order $14.99 + S&H. And then there is the expense of finding the actual book which upon a quick search I cannot seem to find more than the website listing the song lyrics.

good point... we may have to find a play that we don't have to pay royalty rights for use.... That is really going to narrow our selection down quite a bit...

[Jo-JotheSoundDog]

There's always the classics.

[TechDirector]

Originally Posted by Jo-JotheSoundDog

There's always the classics.

Yeah like the old plays that nobody cares about. lol. I can't really think of any off the top of my head. And I'm not really sure where you can look something like that up.