Education / College Section

[plug_in_baby]

Since most people on here are students it might be a good idea to include another section on the list of forums, one about what colleges are good, any good courses, how to pass some techie exams, any hints and stuff?

good idea?

[wolf825]

Originally Posted by plug_in_baby

Since most people on here are students it might be a good idea to include another section on the list of forums, one about what colleges are good, any good courses, how to pass some techie exams, any hints and stuff?

good idea?

Hiya,
Always a good idea when learning is at hand. However rather than have a forum to suggest one college over another, or debate which school is better--I propose we organize a list of questions a student should ask themselves and consider while searching for colleges. Like doesw this college teach you the WAY you want to learn, and does it teach you completely the area you want to learn? Does it offer you a full degree program to Masters, does it offer a Bachalors and you have to do grad work somewhere else, or does it offer an Associates or certficate program? How specialized is the training or school courses for that degree? Do the credits transfer to other colleges? Does a school offer you challenges or daily class work that fits how you learn and what you want? Those are but a few questions to consider.. Remember--only YOU know yourself and what you want and what interests you and how you learn.

The task at hand then is to find a college or trade school that offers the teaching methods that appeal--and teach the lessons you want to learn and need to learn for a job in the industry. Not every college or trade school will fit everyone..if it was so universal there would be clones of one university all over that taught the exact same things in exact details. But every college and every class and course is different. Also consider--there are many manufacturer offered courses that can be of value in certain areas. Foir example--if you wished to be a rigger or a moving light tech--Martin High End all offer classes to be a factory trained tech on their products. CM (Columbus McKinnon) also offers classes on Chain Motors and their repair and upkeep. Some rigging companys offer a "rigging school" which is also helpful--so think about what ELSE you will want to add on your list of goals and things to add to your book of knowledge to be prepared for a job in the field you want to go into.

Since we all learn at different ways and levels of speed, and want different things (book study, hands on, specific areas like sound, lights, general production, stage management etc etc etc), students should ask themselves the first and most basic of questions and one of the most important before they dive into a school and before looking around--what do you want for a career and beyond? (IOW, what are ALL your goals?). You don't have to have your whole life planned--and expect things, career goals and so on to change as you get older, but you should build a good BASE for yourself and your career. That is what College and School and work experiences you get now is for---building that base for yourself.

Additionally, There are many many aspects and areas in this industry that folks may find to their liking, and tech production is but one of those things. Students need to think beyond the here and now..and think about what kind of job or career they want not in 2 years or right out of college but 10 and 20 years from now. Students need to think a bit on the realistic side and prepare their careers for unforseen things and happenings (such as injury or instances like a sudden family or emergency or instance that may prevent them from continuing as a roadie or crew person, or limit their abilities). So not specializing in ONE thing is always a good idea--have a fallback idea for a career that won't disgust you .

Some of the other areas of this industry that student may want to consider for themselves are many...

In Theater (and general production whether it is for corporate work or concerts as well) here are but a few other areas:
Carpenter, Electrician, House TD, Lighting Design, Sound Design, Board operator, shop and stage tech, props & props building, stage management, Set design, Painting and senic properties, special effects & stage effects...and that is only a few IN a theater or an in-house situation. There are lots of things outside as well. The other areas outside of a theater that still deal with the industry are production companys that do hire-work for special events. There are folks that do sound and lighting, others who do softgoods, then a few who do carpentry and set design and so forth. Plus also in these company's are the most vital of techs--those miracle workers who keep all gear running, and fabricate gear on demand for specific needs. All these company's employ fabricators, artisans, designers, sales persons, techs, marketing persons, installtion persons and so on. They also employ stage-manager types who handle events & clients, and then of course there is event design. Lots of special event company's out there that handle events for corporations and sub-hire those production specialty company's to do the events. Corporations pay a lot of big $$ for event company's to handle every need for them. There are special effect company's who do nothing but design and build cool stuff for events. The list is limitless really...

Outside of that even further, but still deeply involved in the industry are sales and marketing reps--these folks go around the areas or country and demo gear, make sales bids, open stores, and help end-users. Further still are the installation company's and folks who go around and install those new networks, new fly systems, new dimmers, new sound systems etc to end-users. These folks are usually factory trained or general sales folks and can sell you things from tape to systems or troubleshoot end-user problems.

Outside of that even more is the manufacturers themselves--the folks who design and come up with all the new toys. Those folks in lighting and sound employy electrical engineers & designers and computer folks to come up with new systems to try to outdo their competitions products. Desiging new lighting fixtures, new speakers, new fly systems and so on....

Finally, but not least, there are the teachers--the educators who teach the next generations the benefits of their experiences whether it be tech or design, drafting, theory etc etc. Plus a lot of these skills and industry's transfer over from the live stage to TV, Film & commercial work.

The point of this is to show you that there are MANY area's in the entertainment industry--its very big if you look at it, and as students getting ready for college or a career you need to think about what you are going to do tomorrow AND 20 years from now and start laying a base for it now. what is the long-term aspect of your career goal? What are the STEPS in your career you want to achieve or build up to doing? What do you have to fall back on should something not happen in your plan? You can't have a small goal that can be achieved in a year and has no "next step" after it is done. Some of the best ideas IMO are for students to get a degree--even if it is not in theater.. Having a degree is a very valuable thing because as a fallback you can always find a school or university who is in need of a teacher--and in most school systems to teach you MUST have a college degree. Having a backgrond in theater, tech, electrical engineering, CAD and Drafting, Design, business management, sales and marketing--they are all part of the industry and can all be aspects of a great career. It all depends on what you WANT to do, and what you have to fall back on should things not work out as planned.

Just a few ideas to braoden this topic...

-wolf

[zac850]

I would love this type of section. I'm in 10th grade, and just starting to change my focus from veterinary medicine to tech stuff, which I love so much more... I have no idea what school I wanna go to, but I think that I wanna do LD and SM. But I also want to be able to fall back on teaching kids how to tech, like being the TD at a school...
I want to work on some big shows (broadway... I'm close to the city...) in the next 15 years or so, but after that I want to be able to fall back on something that would be easier.... like teaching and stuff....

but for the short term, yea, I've got no idea what school to go to, or even what type of things I should be doing in high school. I do as much tech stuff as possible (its saturday, i spent 4 hours at school helping with the set and lighting (and creating a star-field, i'll post pics later...) But what other classes type things should I focus my time on... I've really got no idea....

[Mayhem]

Originally Posted by zac850

I would love this type of section. I'm in 10th grade, and just starting to change my focus from veterinary medicine to tech stuff...

Those 2 fields are not all that different Zac!

Some shows will make you wish that you had a syringe full of the "green sleep" to take care of that annoying director and others will make pulling on the long rubber glove seem like a tranquil moment in paradise!

I think that you should keep your options open and if you are not sure of what you wish to specialize in, pick classes that will form a basis for the future. Although, most things that you will learn will be useful for something in your chosen career.

Dave opened up a new forum a few weeks based on a post in which you and I were active. Essentially, it offers a place for students to talk about the good and bad aspects of their collage or school based teaching. Unfortunately no one has posted yet, but this sort of feedback could be useful for getting a feel for different programs out there. The concept was to get people to look at the methods used to teach and whether or not they are affective, enjoyable and efficient, with the aim to facilitate some ideas on better ways to teach theatre. I am sure that this sort of discussion would better equip you with the information to critique the programs of various institutions, even if they were not directly discussed. For example, you might decide that small group workshops (where you get more hands on teaching) will suit you better and offer more to you than a traditional didactic curriculum (lecture and exam based) you could begin by asking the collage you are interested in which method it uses.

Cheers,

[wolf825]

Originally Posted by zac850

I would love this type of section. I'm in 10th grade, and just starting to change my focus from veterinary medicine to tech stuff, which I love so much more... I have no idea what school I wanna go to, but I think that I wanna do LD and SM. But I also want to be able to fall back on teaching kids how to tech, like being the TD at a school...
I want to work on some big shows (broadway... I'm close to the city...) in the next 15 years or so, but after that I want to be able to fall back on something that would be easier.... like teaching and stuff....

but for the short term, yea, I've got no idea what school to go to, or even what type of things I should be doing in high school. I do as much tech stuff as possible (its saturday, i spent 4 hours at school helping with the set and lighting (and creating a star-field, i'll post pics later...) But what other classes type things should I focus my time on... I've really got no idea....

Hi Zac,
Well as Mayhem said--you want to keep your options open best ways you can. Also remember, nothing wrong with being a vet AND doing tech either--the Vet biz will certainly allow you more $$ and financial freedom than most tech work will. But the key is to do what you LIKE and Enjoy..and if a Vet isn't it--best you know that now than later on. I originally wanted to be a doctor/surgeon..I interned and did a lot of work in hospitals when I was a teenager. After a while tho I found I didn't WANT to be a doctor as a career (and felt the nurses & techs did all the cool work anyway), but I still found medicine interesting..particularly emergency medicine, so I try to routinely keep my EMT certification and first aid training--its a fall back interest for me should I ever decide to move somewhere (like a beach) there is not a theater or production company nearby. Every place has a hospital or EMS service of sorts. So you CAN still keep some of your interests alive...that is a vital thing--never let your true interests and curiosity falter or die if you can help it. Creativity & genius flows from being a "random brain" person...

You also have to think to yourself what that "career thing" is that you will enjoy later on in life...the person you are now will be a different person when you are age 25 and then 30 (believe it or not--its true--CHANGE is key in life and everything and everyone CHANGES as they grow older), and I have seen some folks who have loved tech in HS, then gotten to college and gotten older--and by the time they graduated they decided they wanted to do something else primarily and do tech work on the side. Not saying it will happen to you--but I'm saying that it can--and only you know yourself well enough to see in your minds eye you doing theater tech work and teaching as a career. You can certainly change careers later on--its very possible...so you will never be locked into one thing in your life..but later on when you get more and more responsibility and financial burdens (home, cars, insurances, taxes,utilities etc) it can be a bit more difficult to make time for that kind of change when you have to make money every month to live. Hence why now is the best time to set up a base for yourself. First thing I would suggest--plan to get a degree...maybe specialize in teaching, theater tech & design or something similar. Just having a degree opens up the door for you to teach later on(and schools/colleges do have great benefit programs for staff etc since I am affiliated with one right now ). As for stuff you can do right now--learn CAD, read books and self-learn if you are god at that. Post questions here and learn--even if you wanted to try your hand at lighting design--if you post a design and set, we can certainly evaluate it for you and help you learn more on things to consider. Just get a lot of experience locally and in your school doing the tech work and all aspects of it that you can handle. The more you know, the more you can do. If you only want to know lights then you are limited to lights--but if you know lights, sound, carp and SM/TD, then you can do more. My motto has been when one area isn't 'paying' or in need, another area is...and if I want that other job I should be able to jump from one skill to another. The more you know helps build a good base for becoming a TD too--because you know ALL the areas in a show and you can see what is happening and what isn't and th eorder things have to happen in..i.e. you do not build a set and THEN hang your lights when you can no longer get to the electric pipes because of the set . I have a long background in theater tech, lighting & design, sound engineering and design and most areas involved in a production from TD to ME to SM to flys & rigging & Carp and everything in between, but I also have a background in touring, production management, special effects, corporate, concert and special event tech, design and production, shop and business management, ground rigging and some AV skills as well. I know most major consoles out there for sound and lights, I'm trained on repair for moving lights from Vari*Lite Martin and High End and have other certifications I went and got on my own--you can go out and get those same certs because the more you learn the more you can do and the better the tech you will be. It certainly makes where I go and what I do pretty flexible...but it took a long time to learn and get decent to really good at each of those things. So keep your options open--learn and DO as much as you can. For school--keep up with the base studies and get good grades, and make sure you don't let yourself slip or get complacent. ATTITUDE in tech is most important next to what you know...anyone who knows a ton of things but is a pain to work with will not get hired over the tech who is eager and has a great work ethic but little experience. Experience and things can be taught to anyone willing to learn--but poor attitude cannot be unlearned so easy.

To continue a few of the points I was making, here's a few more questions and points that students should consider as well for themselves...

1--Aside from the stuff I said already to consider in my first post, you have to decide for yourself the life and lifestyle you want. Do you want to travel, do you want to be stupidly rich, well off or just do OK financially. Is your priority in life to make a ton of $$, or to enjoy and be happy doing what you do regardless of what it pays? Tech work in general doesn't pay a ton--but it does pay more than enough to live on and it CAN pay a TON of money if you don't mind working, not sleeping, and you network yourself and promote yourself in the industry or around your area and make contacts. If you want to make 100k a year by the time you are 25--forget about being a theater tech and go into design instead and 'good luck'..

2--Next thing folks need to consider--where do you want to live? Seriously--its a consideration...if you want to do theater, most small towns do not have the opportunitys that most may want. But then some small towns with a one-horse theater may just be perfect for someone. If you want to teach--then you should consider what type of college or university appeals--large ones with multi-buck theaters like Harvard, or average universitys with good programs but they have budgets like UCF, or are you hoping for the community college, community theater group or high school level of teaching? Do you want to get a job at your old school 8 years from now teaching theater? Or do you want to go out and do work, see the world and then come back to teaching later on? So you have to ask yourself where you want to live.. city, suburb or country? Live where you grew up or find someplace completely away from there? Do you want to travel and tour with no home base, or do you want a firm home and job that doesn't move you from town to town? Census Statistics note that most folks tend to grow up, live, work and die all within 50 miles of where they were born. That can be a bit discerning to some folks when they see what the possibilities are of the 21st century for travel and living.

3--Next thing to consider for yourself is what is your priority in life--a career or a family? Most techs tend to not have much in the way of family's, except the ones who are set in stone where they are and not moving-then they are where they are. If you want a family as soon as you find that soul-mate and expect to be married by the time you are 25, that will lead to financial burdens and needs that you need to prepare yourself for now--cause base house/shop-tech work will not cut it and you should look at teaching immediately or another career and do tech on the side..and honestly at age 25 most are still building their careers and that is about the age when most students really begin their careers. They have put in a lot of tech time and cut their chops on many shows and done many things and built up a reputation..and that is about the time and age (between 25 - 35) that you start to get a lot of those doors open up for ya. It takes TIME..and you need to be willing to put in that time and ride the ride. If you want a career first and foremost and don't want to worry about marrage or finding that soul mate until you are late 20's or 30-ish, then it leaves you a bit more flexible in what you can do. I mean--married people do not usually let their spouse tour or go travel for extended lengths of time.. Sure you can meet great folks to partner up with on shows and in theater communitys, but usually when that whole marrage thing comes into play it tends to set roots for people in one location...which if you are career oriented and want to tour or be able to hop from city to city when a new job opportunity opens up while you are building your career, that could be difficult to near impossible. So if you are marrage/family oriented, or the adventureous career oriented type--you need to figure that out for yourself and try to plan for that kind of lifestyle.

4--Do you want to have your own theater/shop, or do you want to work for a company? Interesting question...both have their perks but it depends on the type of person you are that will decide whether it will be best for you to own yoru own company or theater or work for one that is already established. Most folks will work for other company's--which is good AND bad...but its a lot less stressful than doing your own company. Are you a stress junkie and like taking on a hundred things at once and tasking yourself to produce, or do you prefer being given tasks and producing results for others by others? If you want to own your own theater/production company/whatever later on--you may wish to study good business management and get that as a base for a degree first and foremost. If you want to open up a company that does CAD work or rents/sells lighting gear, you will want to get business management plus some electrical engineering skills going, and a good sales & marketing class or two. Key to this point is you need to stop and THINK about what little 'technicalities' are involved with the gear, the work and the goals you have in mind for yourself--and that should help you figure out which classes are best for you to take and which to major in and what to study up on. I mean--if an architect was to build buildings in an earthquake area--it would be nice if they knew a bit about geology while they planned this stuff out.


I have more things folks should consider..but any more in one post will make your brain explode I know it will make mine explode. Hope this helps ya Zac....think and post more questions and look for the answers in yourself and in the opinions of others you respect and who will tell ya straight.

-wolf

[zac850]

Hum, well, lets see... I live right outside NYC, so I was thinking/hoping to SM on broadway for a bit, and then be able to fall back on a teaching degree, or running some lighting company, but most likely a teaching degree and teach high-school kids tech. I also want to do lighting design, and i want to know at least a little about sound design.

As for the vet stuff, i've worked in a vet hospital for the past 2 years, and its becoming a job. every day its basically the same thing, and it is just not as fun as it use-to be. I've been doing lighting since I was 5, setting up a theater in my house for my parents....

I enjoy it a lot more then vet work. There is no "right answer" or "right way to do something". I am working out a new way to wire up our lights at my school, and its just me finding an easier way to make things work. Its not wrong, and its not right, its just an easier way of doing something....

Anyway, yea, you've given me a lot to think about... and i'm not sure if thats good or bad....

[wolf825]

Originally Posted by zac850

Anyway, yea, you've given me a lot to think about... and i'm not sure if thats good or bad....

Oh my..I made ya think...yikes!

FWIW I hope I didn't overwhelm you with stuff. Those things are nothing to stay up nights thinking about--but stuff to keep in your mind and ponder a while when you can. Sometimes you find answers to things just by keeping them in the back of your mind. Answers to those 'deep thoughts' take a while to come up with and that is to be expected...

Sounds cool about your interest in lighting and teaching. SM on broadway--I know a couple folks who do/did that and some who work down in DC now. They love it. FWIW, you may also want to consider joining IATSE (In NY--its Local 1) when you turn 18 or are ready to start working around NYC. New York is mostly IA run for all the houses except for some smaller off-broadway stuff. Local 1 is a great bunch of guys to work with and a ton of experience to gain...

Again, I hope I didn't bring ya down with all my yapping about "life" and "careers"..I tend to be kinda blunt and its not meant to shake anyone up.

-wolf

[TechnicalDirector3-W]

I think that it is a good idea I am in the process of looking for a college and wondering what courses to take to go into technical theater for a lifetime career. I think that this forum could be a lot of help and provide good info and insights.

[ship]

My thoughts is that it would take a really good survey to rate one school to another as the only way to get both past the rosie colored eyes factor and lack of knowing what you should be learning problems. That and what one person finds useful is different than what another one will much less what is good for one person's career is probably going to be different than from another person's.

Judging schools is also very difficult because one school to another, unless you have transferred in from another school - many others, it’s hard to say what your training is going to be verses what another schools training is going to be, than above all of that, how much of it will be useful when you get into the real world.
If you become say a scene shop carpenter, than only at best half of what you learn in the best of schools will be similar to what you are doing in the pro-world. That’s given a theater that teaches what you really need to know, problem is you don’t know what you need to have learned until you get out of school. They have so many tools etc... Rosy colored eyes, my school is great, I can build a platform in X hours straight. Once you get out of school you get somewhere that for the most part does not even stock much less use 2x4 lumber, than you learn what you were not taught.
Same with balancing loads and amperages of wire gauges etc. for electrics. You might know how to focus etc. but chances are that will only be at best a part of your job. You will also be responsible for repairing them thus knowing the difference between a 10-32 and a M5-1.5 screw. Than again, others might not need to construct things or service the lights so you would not need as in-depth of instruction into it much less routering coves into two foot sections of blocked up but very foam molding and might perhaps need more experience at the AutoCadd, light board or even with design in general so you will have made your mistakes before you get into the real world. So even if all schools taught the same things and went into depth enough, it would be really hard for even the best of them to teach what’s absolutely needed everywhere you go. And that’s given a good school, you don’t do much duchman for instance in the real world anymore, much less soft flat work. Yet your school has a 40' scene painter’s drop mechanism that allows you to paint the entire drop inside the scene shop. That’s nice, is it necessary? Don’t know what’s the level of scenic artist training plug cross training? Would be good but the programs are able to offer the in depth skills, most are not that large, but how do you know what you need to learn until you get your career going? And this is all given the individual student is ready to learn what is provided to learn, and that click with how it’s presented and the program offered.

No one right way to learn, no right way to teach. My school is great, we do 10 productions per year and students get to design.... Question is how much production wise was put into it verses how much more or less time did you need to have? A lot of shows is nice, especially if you are going to keep designing on the same scale say off off Boradway or a school of the same size. But if you want to go Broadway proper, than you probably need to assistant a major designer. At that point perhaps lots of design practice could be useful, but even more useful into getting the job might be more experience yet assistant deigning for guest designers, teachers and graduate students so you also have lots of experience in assisting the designer. Otherwise what about a school presenting say 4 or 5 shows a year, but having time and budget to put as much into each production as a scene shop would have in having a full crew of professional carpenters on a 40 hour week for two or three weeks? That’s say three months worth of production time needed to build a full scale show in a school.

In other words, it’s hard to say what will be right for any one person, or without those people having been both professional before hand so they know what to look for training in, much less having other schools to weigh programs against, it’s hard to judge what will serve you best. My hope is that the industry certification program will help to solve a lot of problems in that those schools that do not offer certification compliant programs in all the areas you are interested you might avoid. Until than, the real question is how many schools did you tour and spend time at before you chose the school you are at? Than what makes your program stand out above others. What are you learning and how in depth is it. When it comes to balancing a load, do you remember it a year later or was it just sufficient enough to pass a test than forgotton etc. Look at the lesson plan. If your intent is sound, how many actual classes in sound do they have? If it’s only two classes, can you even declare it as your major? Why go if your intent is to become a sound designer or tech person, if all you get out of a school is a BA in general theater and no specific training in your field more than others? Than again a certain amount of school is still production. Granted if it’s only one or two classes at best, you won’t end up a engineer, but perhaps you will be working under someone really great in the field with time to take you under his wing and learn even more than you could in the classroom. What is the staff really like anyway? Do they stay vibrant by doing outside gigs or do they find it more 9 to 5 type work?.

[Mayhem]

Ship has raised some very interesting and valid points here. One of the most relevant is the need for life long and student centred learning. These are major buzzwords in education and what they basically mean is that the focus of the educational approach is moved away from philosophy of imparting knowledge to students via lectures and assessing them on their ability to regurgitate this knowledge in an exam. Some people like this method, as it enables them to sit back and be spoon-fed and you often hear them asking, “will this be in the exam”. Most people in reality learn the material in good depth for the exam but then tend to forget it after that. It has long been believed that equipping a person with the skills to find the information for themselves will better prepare them for real life situations. This is where the shift from giving information to presenting a situation or problem and then guiding the students to find the information relevant to apply to the issues at hand. Fortunately, practical skills lend themselves very well to this method of teaching. This is also how we work in the real world. We look at a situation or problem and then attempt to find the best solution to obtain the desired result. We also tend to remember or learn when the subject is related to an experience. For example, I could give you a full lecture on the clutch mechanisms on cordless drills. However, you will probably learn better by getting a bag of screws and some timber and practicing for yourself.

Another thing to keep in mind is (as Ship pointed out) we never stop learning. In fact, the reality is that the more we know, the more we know that we don’t know. Now for some this is a very scary concept, but it is one that underpins our very existence. Most of my skills and knowledge in the entertainment industry I have learned from observing, asking questions, listening to others, reading books, manuals, web sites (including this one) and experimentation. You will never stop learning - Anyone who tells you that they know everything there is to know is full of crap!

Another valid point is that knowledge can rarely be negative or useless. Even if it seems unrelated when you learn it be prepared to call on it in future years. I can recall sitting down in my Year 10 math class when we were learning geometry and thinking to myself “when am I ever going to use this?” Well, just a couple of years back I was designing some foldback wedges and knew the dimensions that I needed to use but could not figure out what angles I needed to use. Well, remember the sine, cos and cosine formulae for working this out? I didn’t!

I am not going to go into the merits of classes per topic and course balance, as Wolf and Ship have already covered these.

In my opinion, these are some of the things that need to be considered when looking at specific programs. One thing that would be invaluable would be to talk to some of the former students of the program who are working in the industry. They will be able to give you insight into how well prepared they felt to work when they started. In fact, any good program should be seeking the feedback from their graduates as a means to improving on their program. Perhaps some of the recent graduates who are members of ControlBooth.com could enlighten you in this regard.

Another thing to consider is the experience of the people teaching the program. How current is their information and equipment? However, learning on older boards will not disadvantage you. Similarly, learning on more than one make/model of board will be helpful.

My own personal advice would be to keep a journal or portfolio in which you not only log your activities but also reflect on what you got out of them. Simply ticking tasks off of a list does not achieve anything. Try and find a mentor who will help to guide you and if possible, explore the opportunities of extra curricular experience. Not living in the States I cannot comment on how difficult or appropriate this is (Unions etc) but even if you are just observing, it will give you insight into the ‘real’ world in which you aspire to work. We have a program in high schools here call ‘work experience’ where students spend a week in the workforce in an area that they would like to pursue and most university or college programs also entail some workplace or industry related placements. Again, something to keep in mind when looking at various programs.

At the end of the day, learning is a very individual thing and some people relate better to some than to others. The factors here are variable and can be the teaching method used, the design of the curriculum, exposure to real life situations and even the individual teachers. My hope would be that by getting as many current and recently graduated students as possible reflecting on the programs that they undertook or are undertaking will give you (and others) a broad range of feedback and issues that will assist your decision.

Hope this is helpful,