What is this fixture (ERS)?

[tjrobb]

Derek -
Twin lens (no idea what 'spread', see below), plano-convex.
In thinking about it, it may be an old 4.5x6.5, as the two lenses nearly touch at the center, so the focal length has to be really short.

[ship]

Given you are out of NV and not local to any East or Central Coast makers of stage lighting it makes it really hard to guess the brand.

Assuming the lamps shown in the photo near the fixture are 300w PS-35 and 500w PS-40 as a guess, (Yes I do mean PS, not G in shape), and neither I think for the G-48 lamped PC fixtue in the first of your fixture photos, (a little less hard to brand name - though did you ever find a brand on it, might help with these, commonly the same brand from the same place.)... Assuming the above PS-35 and PS-40 lamps above, you have a lot of really valuable lamps especially if they say Mazda instead of GE or other brand. If true you have G-48 lamps and they work, my guess in the $500.00 range alone for them in something that has not been made say since the 40's as a guess. The tube lamp was much better for doing optical instruments, much less the bi-pin or pre-focus lamps came out by than which would assure alignment of the filament to the reflector. (Yep your fixture is really inefficient but really special in being history of stage lighting within a black hole of knowing of it existing.)

Assuming this fixture is as it is because it's made to take the huge globe instead of a tubular incandescent lamp, that would explain its shape quite a bit. That puts it somewhere between say the mid-1920's thru at most early 1940's for fixture type assuming the Tube lamp came out in the 30's. On the other hand a dual lens PC or any lighting fixture from back than would be really strange I think to see in at best making it say mid-1930's at best. Assuming old style scew based lamp not done after say the 40's but newer style dual lens technology not really seen much until the later 60's at best I think but possible... Very unusual fixture.

You it would seem really have an interesting lightng fixture. Must have e-mailed that I want one already in not seeing it above. A guess on my part is Century Lighting as the maker or perhaps some West Coast maker of lighting.

Checked 1926 Fuchs, 1968 Bentham, 1947 (1960) Williams, 1954 (1968) Rubin, & 1967 Bellman and did not see your fixture or its concept listed in photo or mention I remember though further re-reading of any of the above might mention such an animal.

Hold the phone... Page 397, Fig. 175 of Bentham's "Art of Stage Lighting" book shows a Leko like shape with a 1Kw globe lamp in it. Not similar to your light at all in being axial based and more in workings like a beam projector than Leko but another curious light. They call it an "Acting Area Flood." It does however on page 396 say of this type of light "invented in the mid-1930's." Specifically:


"Acting Area Flood
In British practice this means o a vertical floodlight, introduced in the mid-thirties, with a fixed beam of roughly 26 degrees and sharp cut-off. Used massed togehter on bars first by Robert Nesbitt for his spectacular shows in the later 1930s, it bvecame the comon solution for high intensity lighting particularly during the 1939-45 War and immediately after. Massed use of the Patt 23 Baby Profile Spots and finally the availability of Fresnels, both of which hadadjustable beam coverage, killed it. In a way, both the Nedervolt and the higher wattages of Sealed-beam Lamps (q.v.) when used massed together, produce a similar type of lighting to this use of Acting Areas.
In Germany in the 1920s, probably earlier, an Acting Area flood (german spelling) had been designed to be used as a vertical coverage in areas encompasssed by the cyclorama. But the lanterns themselves were less efficient than their British successors and in any case only a few were used to each installation. The essential difference between the two usages may be summmed up by saying that in Germany the Acting Area lantern was an auxiliary unit only whereas in Britian it was oftan the main source of overhead light."

Basically what the above is saying is that it's possible your version is an American example of the pre-Pratt 23 Leko I think. Could be Hub but I think Century. If built like a tank you might also check Mole Richardson and other West Coast manufacturers but somethign in me says Century by way of the cooling vents style. Say if all above is true say 1936 Century Leko though I have no real info to verify that guess.

[tjrobb]

OK, my fault in the confusion, but the G/PS lamps are NOT related to the ERS. I found them next to each other (the G/PS lamps were in the PC spots), and to avoid a lot of really small albums on Facebook they wound up in the same album.

In terms of a lamp for the ERS I have yet to find one other than a modern version. In reviewing past threads, it would be an early version of the EGG (IIRC, might be EGE), albeit likely an incandescent version.

As for lamp brand, they each say GE, with "Base Down To Horizontal" and 500W / 1000W. The 500W is rated 120V, the 1000W at 115V. They are both also labeled as "Spotlight." How something that large, lacking a means of proper focus (a la P28s, etc.) can be a spot I will never know.

Again, sorry for the confusion, it is hard for me to know what may help you out in finding information on the fixture.

(Sidenote: Patent US2076240, by a certain Mr. Levy, c.1934, appears to be an early ERS, if not the first, and has the twin PC lenses.)

[derekleffew]

Originally Posted by tjrobb

...In terms of a lamp for the ERS I have yet to find one other than a modern version. In reviewing past threads, it would be an early version of the EGG (IIRC, might be EGE), albeit likely an incandescent version. ...

The lamp would have had the designation 750T12/9 and later ANSI code DNT, if 750W. The 500W was 500T12/8 (DEB) or 500T12/9 (DNS).

[ship]

Originally Posted by tjrobb

OK, my fault in the confusion, but the G/PS lamps are NOT related to the ERS. I found them next to each other (the G/PS lamps were in the PC spots), and to avoid a lot of really small albums on Facebook they wound up in the same album.

In terms of a lamp for the ERS I have yet to find one other than a modern version. In reviewing past threads, it would be an early version of the EGG (IIRC, might be EGE), albeit likely an incandescent version.

As for lamp brand, they each say GE, with "Base Down To Horizontal" and 500W / 1000W. The 500W is rated 120V, the 1000W at 115V. They are both also labeled as "Spotlight." How something that large, lacking a means of proper focus (a la P28s, etc.) can be a spot I will never know.

Again, sorry for the confusion, it is hard for me to know what may help you out in finding information on the fixture.

(Sidenote: Patent US2076240, by a certain Mr. Levy, c.1934, appears to be an early ERS, if not the first, and has the twin PC lenses.)

Ah' that does change things. I was thinking that given the size of the lamp housing and the lamps next to it such a fixture could feasibly be for a PS shaped lamp. Still possible, would need more photos such as how you access the lamp. Still though if P-28s, it is a curious fixture still. That LCL of the DNS/EGE at 3.1/2" is less about the needs of the halogen lamp and more about the incandescent lamp's cooling area for the tube shaped lamp & still possible it was a PS shaped lamp origionally installed in the fixture.

The dual lens is still a problem given the base type - verify the paint is origional to the lens train in matching body or that someone didn't install a dual lens to the fixture at some point. No idea of who made the fixture but at least the dual lens sits better now with lamp base type somwhat for eara - early/mid 60's at most I think in still being really early for a dual lens train. This at most if not somewhere between the 40's and early 60's still.

Certain key characteristics to look at and for. Was the paint sort of thick and textured almost like a cement coating? Square or hex nuts in use? Absolutely no name plates, IA etc. stickers or decals on the knobs, yoke or body? What brand is the reflector? Reflector decal of brand don't persay mean what brand of fixture but does home in on it if that brand didn't make their own like with Century having Major make reflectors. Obviously its a radil fixture, what size hole is in the reflector and in general, how did you change the lamp and or clean the reflector? What type of knobs are used in general from focus to yoke? What type of latches are used to latch it at the gate if it opens? Do the lens retaining rings have little bends to them as if 360Q or 65Q so as to grip or not? Do we take it for granted its all stamped steel or are some of the perpendicular to the beam of light surfaces aluminum? Of them and given cast aluminum are they more or less flat or as later more pineapple like in casting? What's the quality of workmenship on the sheet metal - well fit and tight or a little lazy in form fitting? Sheet metal screws, rivets, pound rivets or tapped machine screws holding it together? What's the width of yoke strap? Often older ones were less in width like about an inch. Use any cone washers? How do you bench focus the lamp? What's the brand of lampholder? Asbestos pad under that lampholder & solder terminals or screw terminals attaching wire to it? Three brass grommet holes for wire to feed the fixture or two?

What's the history of where the fixture came from? That paperwork trail of where found can often also be really useful in figuring out where it came from as with local area old timers as it were in remembering stuff like where my Major Lekos and Fresnels came from. "I remember being in the factory...." Same person that was responsible for cutting like 1/3 the length off my Major PC fixture so as to get a wider beam spread off it back in the 60's.

Send the photos around to your local old timers and if such records are around search when they were bought etc. or at least where did you get them from specifically and what's the history of the place they were found in? With difficulty it should be possible by way of that building to find out who its lighting supplier was by way of origional concept in taking for granted these were found locally and the building was built at about the above timeline. What other ancient gear do you have in at times similar brands of gear were installed as a package deal.


Kind of a shame they were not medium screw PS type lamped dual lensed Lekos, still if medium prefocus, that's still 60's at best and given the housing and nobody seen anything like this before very early if not earlier and important. ?Late 50's thru Mid-60's and perhaps a smaller company attempt to match what someone else was doing only thru a lesser quality in being able to do it version, or a really early version others copied in a more refined lamp cap type of way. Still perhaps given the size of that lamp cap housing, could be a PS type fixture as possible was changed over at some point. Much depends on what you detect in say extra holes in the mounting plate for lampholder, different hardware mounting it or say screw based sockets instead of soldered connections to the base.


Send more photos all about the fixture, it is a fascinating fixture. Got two Major Lekos... perhaps one for one trade if you have more than one. Fair traid in mine already being fully operable for current standards plug in ready.

[tjrobb]

Ship-
The whole thing appears at first glance to be one unit, and not cobbled, with the exception of a couple screw holes that were for something I have yet to figure out. The paint is all one-layer and consistent across the unit.

As for the P28s, it is possible that it was added later, the wiring may be asbestos but there is no asbestos pad under the socket (which IIRC was common practice?). It was accessed by the far corner screws, the "middle" corner screws adjusted the peak (!). I would have shown it assembled but the attachment screws are rusted into place. It 'loads' the lamp in a manner the same as any other profile ERS would.

As for a label I have completely (down to factory parts) disassembled it and found nothing. There is no reflector label, no parts label, nothing.

The parts themselves are tank-like. The 'knobs' on the shutters are hex bolted to the shutters, and are made of a bakelite-like material (black, with a ton of smooth bumps, matches the handle; looks roughly similar to a modern L&E ERS or Altman 360Q). Also, the shutters (as mentioned in an earlier post) are all at slightly different heights so the 'stack' and don't bind; they are also tri-planar and have two spacers between them. All material short of the reflector is steel of varying gauges, even the shutters which appear to be "plain" steel (they have been burned clean through on the edges); I feel confident that I could hit the fixture with a hammer and not have much of a dent. The lens holder (similar to a lock ring for a P64, circular with the two points that you pinch to re-lamp) is spring steel, though. All holes have been reamed and have no burrs. The angular parts are bent, not cut and welded.

While I mention the shutters use hex nuts it is possible they were modified as the focus knob is held to the lens tube with a square nut. Also, all screws except those I have replaced are straight-blade, not Philips.

The lenses are good quality, with a clear transmission and no greening that I noticed.

Sadly, as we are a community theatre there really isn't anyone that has been here for very long, the longest MIGHT be the 1980's, but that would be our General Manager and I doubt he would have any records from that era or recall the unit- he's great at running the place but not very tech-savvy.

The history of the building is varied, it started in 1928 as a Vaudeville house, then went to movies when Vaudeville died. This went on until 1982 when they cut the seating from ~1500 to 525, and vastly changed the layout of the building. The fixture in question was found sitting on the old house floor below the new house floor (think "/_" with the _ being the old and the / being the new house), next to the fixtures from 1928 (and part of our 2nd electric, don't ask). This was also when CRCT (now TCR, who I am employed by) moved in and started a community theatre in the space.