Rep plot for high school

Alright- I'm in the midst of trying to overhaul a local high school's technical theatre side of things. Basically, I'm trying to give them a better jumping off point, so they can focus on everything else when they get into production mode. However, I come with fairly limited knowledge... Which is where you guys come in.

So right now I'm trying to come up with a rep light plot that will serve their needs for almost anything (plays, recitals, talent shows, award ceremonies)... What they' ex got now "works" but could be better. They' eh currently got 12 Pars and 24 ERSs (of varying degree length). I know that math wise, that means 4 lights per area. Here's my (very awfully sketched) idea of what to do... I would LOVE feedback so I'm not going in to blind.



Basically, there are 3 electrics and a catwalk. I can't tell you the dimensions of the stage... Theoretically my downright would consist of all the pars and 6 ERSs- even though that's slightly stupid. I'm just not sure how else to accomplish getting cool and warm for downlighting and 45 degree fronts (which is, from my understanding, the best way to get versatility in a rep). Will this work? Do you have a better idea?

Thank you!


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Without knowing more about the space, it is going to be hard for us to give you useful advice. However, a few thoughts that I have:
-You may be better off lighting the first two rows of areas from the FOH cat and the upstage row from the 1st (Downstage-most) electric. This will probably give you more even coverage and a more consistent angle.
-For your frontlight, I see that you have the fixtures arranged as warm-cool-warm-cool-warm-cool. You may have better luck hanging them cool-cool-cool-warm-warm-warm. This should give more definition to faces.
-To avoid having to use both pars and ERSs for downlight, you may be able to use only the pars as backlight. The lower angle will provide better coverage, allowing you to use fewer focus areas for top/backs. This could free up the extra ERSs for specials, sidelights, etc.

I'm planning on getting some more info on the space to share tomorrow- guess I should've mentioned that.

1st and 2nd point- thanks, I'll change that. I did it that way for the "45 degree" business. Shot in the dark there.
Your third point- this is what I think you mean, tell me if I'm on the right track..
Basically I could hang the the 12 pars on the 2nd and 3rd electric, then focus them downstage a bit so that they're top/back, instead of straight tops?



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You really don't need both cool and warm down lighting. If they don't have fresnels, I'd just hang one par above each area, either neutral or open white. You may need to use diffusion. If you find that you really need that cool light from overhead, you could hang a system of back lights. I doubt you'll see the need. Nothing wrong with high backlights rather than straight tops, either. You'll probably find yourself needing to improvise a bit here.

Avoid ellipsoidals for overhead wash use. You'll have a heck of a time getting them to blend. A 3- or 4-point lighting system usually serves pretty well for a rep plot. A 3-point system would consist of warm and cool front lights (45° or whatever spacing) and a neutral top/high back. A 4-point system would use three front lights; warm and cool as usual but adding a neutral straight front. Then top or high back as needed.

Although the McCandless Method and others would indicate that a neutral or open white backlight is optimal, I think in this situation where you have no other saturate lighting, maybe a blue such as R80, might ad a bit of color to the stage. Also blue is pretty forgiving, and should work for almost all situations. YMMV.

I've done several of these and one key trick is setting some fixtures aside.

The big issue is keeping them from changing what you have so carefully created. If there are a few "specials" they can hang and run for whatever event, then they won't muck up a good wash.

Okay- sorry for the delayed response- my Tapatalk has been acting all crazy so I've finally broke down and logged on from my computer..

So- there are no Fersnels in the space- what's your best argument for the purchase of some? What's the best use, how will it work better than what they have now?

And an update: I've rehung all of the instruments, in the middle of focusing them, and I've got a couple of questions...

1) What colors should we go for? I'm fairly positive I can convince the director to buy some gel. I looked through their stock and they've got it labeled as "Pink" "Amber" "Blue" "Yellow" "Red" ...all of which are VERY saturate. I've heard using Bastard Amber and No Color Blue for front 45s is common practice- is that a good idea? Tops currently have no color, and are quite white.

2) I had 6 ERSs left over, so hung them off stage on each electric, as a quasi side light. Is that a good idea? I figured those could be the first to go for a special situation- and he would rather have everything up in the air.

2.5) If the "side light" is a good idea, what about color there? I was thinking something more saturate... cool/warm respectively.

3) And here's the big one (I guess). As I was hanging- I noticed that the degrees of the ERSs were not all the same. Okay. I've been there before. But I've always had an ME or LD to tell me where they go, so I've never had to actually think about it before. There are eight 26 degrees and fourteen 36 degrees. All eight 26s are in the FOH Cat, as well as four 36s. The other ten are on stage. In my desire not to shift too many lights around (I was running out of time), I left it the way it was. So my logic (it was flawed) was to focus the 36s center and the 26s on the sides. Now center's a bit dark and that's no good. So my question(s)- What is the (quick) fundamental difference between the degrees? What should I do about the black hole that is center stage? Should all of my front light be 36 degrees? Should I convince him to buy four more 26s?

OH. One more. In my down lighting... there are 9 of them, hung equally apart and such- there's a couple of dark spots with just that system on. Will diffusion help that? Or will it be fine and I need to not worry about it?

PS- This is the updated (rough) plot

(There's a stage and legs this time! ...ish )

Except there's no backlight on the third electric due to... interesting circuiting... on the builders part.

The lower degrees are for longer throw distances. If you have (insert various degrees) fixtures at the same location focused at a wall, the higher the number the larger the pool of light will be, but it will also not be as bright, which is what you're seeing on your stage. The smaller the number, the tighter and brighter the beam. (Assuming they are all the same wattage lamps) below are links to the two fixtures, page 2 list the photometrics for each and will give you beam angle, field angle and brightness at various distances. A photometrics book may be handy, or just find all the fixtures in your space online.

36 degree here: http://theatre.uwinnipeg.ca/download/lx/s4x36.pdf
26 degree here: http://www.etcconnect.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=10737460435


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Awesome! Thanks for that.


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HiMyNameIs said:

So- there are no Fersnels in the space- what's your best argument for the purchase of some? What's the best use, how will it work better than what they have now?

OH. One more. In my down lighting... there are 9 of them, hung equally apart and such- there's a couple of dark spots with just that system on. Will diffusion help that? Or will it be fine and I need to not worry about it?

Click to expand...

Fresnels would fix this issue to a large degree (no pun intended). Par cans usually throw an oval beam spread with a relatively sharp cutoff. Fresnels on the other hand produce a circular beam with a nice soft edge which blends well with others even at a pretty short throw; most of the time without the need for any further diffusion (but YMMV). They're also focusable (spot to flood) and being one of the big three conventional lighting tools (being ellipsoidals, par cans and fresnels), they can really pull a lot of weight in a light plot. Then there's the fact that they're a pretty basic piece of gear that I'd expect every lighting designer to know how to work with, so I'm surprised that the school doesn't have them.

Great! That explanation will do way better than anything I could say. thanks!

Anyone have a solution for the 26/36 issue? I've been contemplating some ideas, and I've come up wig two, but they're a little out there...

1) move the 36s to the outside most positions on the cat, and focus them for cools SR and warms SL

2) cheat my lighting areas and use the four 36s as a new system of front light (basically spread out on the apron, and hopefully including some of mid-stage), but that leaves me with only 8 warm/cool 45s on the FOH cat, for 6 lighting areas. -I feel like this is the crazier of ideas.


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HiMyNameIs said:

... There are eight 26 degrees and fourteen 36 degrees. ...

Click to expand...

HiMyNameIs said:

... Anyone have a solution for the 26/36 issue? ...

Click to expand...

Depending on the throw distance and elevation, angle of of the catwalk,
Five areas across on the downstage using 10 @36°
Four areas across upstage "in one" using 8 @26°
Leaves 6 @36° from First Electric to light farthest upstage.

Might work, might not. Need to know throw distance to plaster line and height of catwalk above stage.

derekleffew said:

Need to know throw distance to plaster line and height of catwalk above stage.

Click to expand...

These are estimations from the director

Edge of stage (there's maybe a 6 foot apron) to cat, 35"
Height of cat, 40"

Makes about a 53" shot from the middle of the Cat to the edge of the stage, if my math is right.

So a 57" shot from middle of the cat to the center of the plaster line.

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I am a little confused. The apron is 35 feet or inches from the Apron?? Both are quite realistic in some high schools. I've got a catwalk that is 48" from the Apron. But due to the Pythagorean Theorem, your catwalk is 35' from the edge of the apron. I assume though that you do mean that the catwalk is 40 feet high. With a 53 foot throw, a 26° would give you a ~25 foot beam, which is quite large, and won't be adequately bright. Of course shutters will correct the size, but not the intesity. A 36° would give you a ~34 foot beam, which is even less useful. A 19° or even a 14° would be better for your application.

YES. Feet. I had a mental lapse in symbols.

Yes. The beams are pretty large, so I've run the barrels all the way to help with that. Of course, I use the term "run the barrels" loosely, because these are ETC Jrs, so really the lens is just moving- which is the other problem. In order to change degree lengths, completely new fixtures have to be bought, and an $800 (for more 26s) is a really hard sell.. A $2400 (for 19s) would be even harder.


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I feel like there's still some confusion. Can you post a picture of one of these. I don't think you'd mentioned these were source 4 juniors until now. Also BMI has S4 junior 26's for $209 new. There is no degree junior lower than 26, so I'm not sure what your $2400 is, because that's high for a regular 19. Were you looking at the LED version? Unless you're talking roughly 4 @$200 ($800) or something like 6 19's @ around $350 each ($2400ish)

Not to mention jr versions are going to be yet again, even weaker than what weve previously mentioned.


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Sorry. Again.

I honestly didn't know they were Source 4 Jrs until yesterday. So I hadn't mentioned it. I also didn't realize that there was nothing lower than a 26 degree in the S4 Jrs.
My prices were getting 4 more 26s, at $200 each, coming out to $800
Or 12 new 19 degrees at $200 (because I didn't know there was no such light in the Jr version), coming out to $2400

Either way- the prices are fairly irrelevant. There's no way they're going to purchase them. So I'm back to the problem, eight 26 degrees & fourteen 36 degrees, and a FOH Cat that's 53 feet away (and three onstage electrics). What's the best way to get even front 45 coverage?

I'll get this being specific and clear thing down soon enough.


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