Video Out from Projector

Short version: Does anyone know if the "Video Out" VGA of a projector is amplified or just a passive split?

Long Version: I've been asked to handle media for a Trivia night and because of the shape/size of the room, we will need 2 projectors. The projectors are being lent to me and I plan on buying the VGA I need since this will be an annual event. I plan on adding a simple 2 input VGA switch, but we won't have it for this year. My plan is to have laptop 1 running the PowerPoint go into computer one, and have laptop 2 with an excel sheet for scores go into computer 2. Than I'll have my iPad as a backup. The projectors will just be daisy chained. I'll have to switch inputs and it won't be very smooth, but hopefully workable as there isn't a budget for anything else.

The simple answer, it depends...
There is no standards that I know of, so it's a manufacturer specific choice.
I'd personally expect them to be at least throwing a set of op amp buffers in there, but...

If you're going to invest, is VGA a wise investment at this point in time when it's a legacy techynology on it's way out?
It can be, but I think it's wise to think about it before committing...

That's what I figured.

As far as investing in VGA, yes there are newer better standards such as HDMI, but both of my laptops have VGA out, and every projector I've ever seen has VGA inputs. This will just be 2x 100' lengths of VGA. I don't really ever do any video related things although I have been casually researching the possibility of adding video to my DJ lighting rig. Probably won't reach that point for awhile.

Now when it comes time for me to invest in a switcher, I will probably get a model that does HDMI and VGA.

Would purchasing some VGA -> Cat5 dongles be a better investment in your opinion?

I would say running cat 6 would help future proof your venue. Even if you use VGA to cat baluns if you decide to upgrade your signal at any time just change the balun and not the wire

Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk

This isn't my venue though. Actually it's a bingo hall. I wish they would just let me patch into their TV system.

My only concern with Cat anything is durability.

wolfman005 said:

My only concern with Cat anything is durability.

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If you're worried about durability, look at Proplex Cat5e cable, it is pricey, but you can run a truck over the cable and it will work.

Morte615 said:

I would say running cat 6 would help future proof your venue. Even if you use VGA to cat baluns if you decide to upgrade your signal at any time just change the balun and not the wire

Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

If the converter is analog, Cat 6 will have worse color skew than plain, old Cat 5. This is one of the rare cases where newer, more expensive could yield worse results. If simple baluns are used, I would go with special, "low skew" cable, made for video, by Belden.

wolfman005 said:

That's what I figured.

As far as investing in VGA, yes there are newer better standards such as HDMI, but both of my laptops have VGA out, and every projector I've ever seen has VGA inputs. This will just be 2x 100' lengths of VGA. I don't really ever do any video related things although I have been casually researching the possibility of adding video to my DJ lighting rig. Probably won't reach that point for awhile.

Now when it comes time for me to invest in a switcher, I will probably get a model that does HDMI and VGA.

Would purchasing some VGA -> Cat5 dongles be a better investment in your opinion?

Click to expand...

I agree with you. HDMI is great and all, but it doesn't do well over long distances which will require baluns or some other converter (HD-SDI would be my preferred choice). Not to mention you can still send HD signal of VGA. . .

I would stick to VGA until you make some money to get quality products. Jump over to monoprice.com and order a few 100' lengths of VGA (lifetime warranty) and the matrix device below. It will work as a cheap switcher and you can change what you put up on each screen making it the same or different if you want. I have one and it is my go to cheap no frills box. It will also act as a signal booster if needed.

Matrix Switcher - http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10104&cs_id=1010405&p_id=4083&seq=1&format=2

Were it me, I'd be wanting to split the signal rather than daisy chain it with the distances we're talking about, 60 metres of cable by the time you reach projector 2 is likely to have degraded the signal, and you may find with 30m between them that the second projector suffers quality issues relative to the first.

Mwchris said:

(HD-SDI would be my preferred choice). Not to mention you can still send HD signal of VGA. . .

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HD-SDI has the disadvantage of not supporting HDCP, which can be a nice recipe for a bad headache...

Another challenge with HD-SDI is the limited resolutions. It is fine if your projector happens to match a television format (720p or 1080p), but not for the many different computer resolutions. Obviously, you can allow for scaling, but this doesn't merit the best image.

I agree that the best solution is to use a DA over daisy-chaining your signal (which could add slight latency as well).

As for HDCP, it is best to avoid it at all cost. If one piece of gear doesn't support it through the system, you lose your image. Obviously this is something that you have to manage when obtaining equipment in knowing how it will be used.

As for VGA, it will likely not show up on consumer projectors in the near future, then possibly go away for the professional models as well. This is part of the Analog Sunset which has been in the works for years in order to deal with content protection.

I understand your concern with HD-SDI, but as you mentioned knowing your system and the types of signals you will be sending reduce the issue to a non-issue. I never depend on house provided gear, unless I've tested it, which is often impossible so I just bring in my own. HDCP can be avoided with proper planning. Poor planning often means HDCP content doesn't get displayed/used.

In regards to the analog sunset . . . Vga will be around for a while. Besides the fact the OP is borrowing the projectors; people with existing projectors aren't just going to jump ship. For the same reason many production companies (not just theater, but audio visual companies) haven't gone to full HD . . . The money just isn't there.

Even if the OP picked up 400' feet of vga and the switcher I mentioned he is out maybe $100. That doesn't even get close to purchasing a decent set of blauns. Heck, even the Ipad adapter to hdmi is $40-50 if I recall correctly.

@Mwchris that was my plan from the beginning.

For me VGA will work fine. The laptops I have won't be going away anytime soon. The projectors likely won't be upgraded. I'm borrowing them from a friend who used to own a small rental shop which has since closed but he still has some gear around that he loans out to people.

I will likely end up purchasing a switcher since I have since been asked to do the media side of Trivia night for a different non-profit organization. And the one I'm working with now has mentioned doing some other fundraiser events that may include video and for the price, even if VGA disappears in a few years, it can't hurt to have around. Not to mention that even if new video products don't support VGA, when working with a non-profit group I've come to realize that one thing I can always count on is having to use whatever I can get my hands on, which is usually older gear.

Thanks for the advice everyone!
-Aaron

Alright follow up question. Is there a way to use PowerPoint to control MIDI? Everything I've googled seems to point in the direction of writing your own code...which I have no idea how to go about doing.

Basically I thought it would be cool to add some LED up lights on either side of the projector screens. Normally they will display the organization colors, but during the countdown to the end of the round, I could make them flash from green to yellow to red along with the PowerPoint. Any suggestions?

ruinexplorer said:

As for VGA, it will likely not show up on consumer projectors in the near future, then possibly go away for the professional models as well. This is part of the Analog Sunset which has been in the works for years in order to deal with content protection.

Click to expand...

Strictly speaking the Analog Sunset only applies to BluRay players playing AACS protected disks (gotta love Digital Restrictions Management). Sure there is a move away from analog signals, but I imagine it will be a long time before it is difficult to find projectors with VGA inputs (more likely to become difficult to find VGA outputs to feed to the projectors first).

I agree that it only applies to BluRay players (including BluRay drives), for now. As the ATSC standards evolve with higher resolutions, there will be a need to adopt the playback device restrictions as well. There is already provisions for how signals are sent via PCs in these standards (no high def over VGA). As this is a consumer driven model, and many professional projectors have obviously succumbed to the consumer model (HDMI standard, but not always DVI), then I don't see this as being a long time away. As I have spoken to many of the projector manufacturers about their choice of inputs on newer models, they admit that they are often driven by the consumer market. Too many customers want the high end projector, but want consumer playback devices. Why will the projector manufacturers continue to support something that isn't requested. If it is cheap enough, they will continue (as shown by S-Video inputs on some high end projectors), but there will be a tipping point where they decided that they need to keep costs down enough, they might as well get rid of unnecessary components. However, on smaller model projectors, VGA is already going away. This is probably due to the target consumer for those projectors either being in the home theater market (never really needed) or the boardroom where many laptops only have digital outputs.

So, will VGA go away? Who knows. It is cheap to produce. Will it be a severe limitation? Sure, but then people still prefer analog technology for various reasons (film and vinyl being two targets). As to if it is a good investment for the OP, it doesn't hurt for the short term. It really depends on how it will be used. I can still buy an old car, but is that one that I will want to spend money for upkeep as parts become scarce or will it be nice enough to take someone out to a fancy dinner? This industry has evolved quickly in the last decade or so. When I started, slide projectors and overhead projectors were still very common. If you wanted digital projection, you hired a 3-gun projector that you had to converge on site and 5000 lumens were bright. With the rapid change in technology, there will be a rapid flux in standards and available inputs.