Attaching Hollywood flats to scenic wagons

Hello Folks,

This is my first year as the technical director in a high school. I'm new to the education end of theater, but I've been involved in theater, in some form or another, for over 30 years. Back in the days as a tech, my field of expertise was props. It's been 20 years since I've graduated college so many things have been lost in my head.

Here's the thing: I need to attach Hollywood flats to wagons and I'm not sure about the best, safest way to go about this. Any suggestions?

How tall are they? Do you want them to sit on top of the wagon or on the side?

They are 8 feet and I was planning on them sitting on top of the wagon.

There are two issues to deal with. The first is how to attach them. The second is how to keep them attached.

To attach, it's not that hard. Set the hollywood flat on top of the wagon and put screws through it into the wagon every 12-18 inches apart.

The harder part will be to keep it attached. It's a very long lever, and people will naturally try to push the wagon using the wall, which will put a ton of strain on the bottom and try to tear the flat off. So what you need to add is some bracing to keep the wall vertical. It doesn't have to be fancy- a diagonal stick of wood to connect the top of the flat to the side of the wagon at the front would do it. So if the wagon and wall makes an "L" shape, you end up like this "L\". Sorry for the bad text art.

That would do it structurally, but it doesn't look pretty. So that's when you start to design something that will look better. It's going to depend on your set, but you could add walls that run along the sides so an overhead view would look like [___]. Those side walls don't have to be full height, either. Or, my favorite- I had a wagon unit that was for a kitchen set. I used the counter that we built on top of the wagon to brace the flat and hold it up. But you will need something to hold the wall up and keep it from tipping over.

Generally I go with 3" screws through the bottom of the flat into studs on the wagon and some diagonal bracing if I can get away with it. Metal L brackets if I cant.

I have some units like this that I keep on hand for all the middle school shows we do. They are shorter so that they can fit through the door to the paint room, but I have them just supported with the metal L brackets and they have lasted a couple years now.

Also, I mounted the walls closer to the middle of the 2' x 8' wagons so that they don't tip over as easily. How large are you wagons?

That's a good idea about the kitchen counter and the diagonal bracing. My wagons are 10'x12' and 10'x10' with door units on each one. I also have one that's 16'x20' with a second story and curved stairs. Talk about a baptism by fire! That one is almost done, but if anyone has any good ideas on how to make a curved railing other than pvc and a heat gun, I'm also open to suggestions for that as well.

A lot of people will tell you not to put heat near PVC due to the toxic off gassing. Depending on your wood skills you can route Luan to the radius of the stair and laminate several strips together into a compound curve. Example, if the outer circumference of your stair is 8', route a bunch of strips at an 8' radius and a 7'-10" radius. Build the stairs and install the spindles, then screw the first strip into the top of the spindles, using the spindles to form the curve. Once that's done you can glue and staple the remaining strips on to build up the thickness, then use a router to put an edge profile on it or whatever you want. With at least 4 strips (about 1" Overall Thickness) it'll be quite stiff and be able to function as a practical support rail. It is a big time commitment though... I did a similar type of laminate bending for an arched bridge rail for Music Man and it worked pretty well. I think I used 6 layers, and over a span of 6' I could hang (220lb) from the middle with only about an inch of deflection

TracyT13 said:

to make a curved railing other than pvc and a heat gun, I'm also open to suggestions for that as well.

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Fill PVC with sand to make smother bends.

For flats on wagons, set them in 6" so you can put kickers. Design interior wall at angle to stiffen long runs.

lwinters630 said:

For flats on wagons, set them in 6" so you can put kickers. Design interior wall at angle to stiffen long runs.

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Oh, the terminology. What, pray tell, is a "kicker"?

kicknargel said:

Oh, the terminology. What, pray tell, is a "kicker"?

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Just trying help the OP.
Sorry, it may not be a common stage term but is often used in construction. The diagnal part of ( the stage term) "stage jack" here are some examples.
Kicker – A supplementary brace used to support a wall structure or foundation.

1. A wood block or board attached to a formworkmember in a building frame or formwork to make the structure more stable. In formwork, a kicker acts as a haunch to take the thrust of another member. Sometimes called a cleat.

kicknargel said:

Oh, the terminology. What, pray tell, is a "kicker"?

Click to expand...

It is the diagnal part of the stage jack. This is a common term in construction. Here are some examples:
kicker

Definitions (5)

1. A wood block or board attached to a formworkmember in a building frame or formwork to make the structure more stable. In formwork, a kicker acts as a haunch to take the thrust of another member. Sometimes called a cleat.

A "kicker" is a term for a diagonal brace to a stud wall

kicknargel said:

Oh, the terminology. What, pray tell, is a "kicker"?

Click to expand...

1. Short for "place kicker," the player or position who attempts to propel the feetsball though the goal post.
2. Also called a side card, is a card in a poker hand that does not itself take part in determining the rank of the hand, but that may be used to break ties between hands of the same rank.
3. Brand of vehicle loudspeaker s, especially subwoofer s. http://www.kicker.com/

Im glad you put a definition to it. I was waiting to make my joke of a Kicker to me is the plate on a door or something meant to open or close, as most ppl use their foot to open doors. First World Problems.

TracyT13 said:

...if anyone has any good ideas on how to make a curved railing other than pvc and a heat gun, I'm also open to suggestions for that as well.

Click to expand...

I'm in this boat at the moment as well. The proper way to do it is with laminates, but I was looking for something simple and quick that wouldn't look too simple or quick (read: crappy). Trying to add a rail to two curved step units recycled from "Anything Goes" for our upcoming children's show and I found some PVC-ish strips, about 1 1/2" x 1/4" that bend really well. I put the posts in for the railing, made sure they were all upright and beveled at the top and just screwed this stuff onto the outside and the top. Stupid simple. It bent really well on the outside, fashioning it to the top took some doing, but the end result is satisfactory if not fashionable.



I can't remember what the strips are called, I bought them a while ago for another project that didn't work and they've just sat around until yesterday. They are somewhere near all the trim and paneling though. It's like a PVC or vinyl exterior with a foam-like exterior so I would guess the heat gun would work too.