Conventional Fixtures PAR16 cable extensions

techietim · Aug 31, 2015

Hello there,

I am working at a venue presently where their PAR16 fixtures have had their cables extended from the short cable that comes with them from the factory.
It is an in-line join which is really neat and it does look safe. I also assume that they have been PAT tested and have passed. They are all 230V birdies (UK).
(I am not using them in our show as we don't require them)

Any one any ideas how this might have been done and whether it can (safely))/should be done?

I have some PAR16s myself which I would like to extend but I don't want to faff of re-wiring the whole fixture really..

Thanks! Tim

JoshMusgrave · Sep 2, 2015

Would a junction box like this be of any use ? A 3 core 15 Amp box?

http://cpc.farnell.com/eterna/cb15a/15a-lighting-connector-box/dp/LA04539

mikeydoesstuff · Sep 2, 2015

would butt splices not suffice? (I'd really love to know if this would be considered an unsafe practice)

JoshMusgrave · Sep 2, 2015

mikeydoesstuff said:
would butt splices not suffice? (I'd really love to know if this would be considered an unsafe practice)

what is butt splice ?

mikeydoesstuff · Sep 2, 2015

JoshMusgrave said:
what is butt splice ?

http://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/3HY92_AS01?$lgthumb$

Theyre plastic coated in-line connectors that you crimp. They come in various wire gage sizes.

Also: dolphin connectors: same theory but filled with silicon - making them waterproof.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/images/uploads/dolphin-super-b-connector-end.jpg

JoshMusgrave · Sep 2, 2015

mikeydoesstuff said:
http://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/3HY92_AS01?$lgthumb$

Theyre plastic coated in-line connectors that you crimp. They come in various wire gage sizes.

Also: dolphin connectors: same theory but filled with silicon - making them waterproof.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/images/uploads/dolphin-super-b-connector-end.jpg

i understand now, ive never seen those used in the UK only the screw terminal boxes I mentioned.

theatricalmatt · Sep 2, 2015

If you were to use any wire nuts or other splices, make certain they're rated for the temperature. Most common wire nuts and butt splices aren't, but they do make ceramic wire nuts that would hold up.

If you're able to, you could replace the socket with one that has longer leads. Most PAR 16 sockets are very easy to replace -- there's a strain relief connector on the outside shell that needs to be removed, ut not much more than that.

Many places I've worked at remove the molded connector they presumably come with, and replace them with automotive disconnects, so that extensions can be made as long as needed. The disconnects are fairly discreet and low-profile, as opposed to wire nuts and others.

techietim · Sep 2, 2015

JoshMusgrave said:
Would a junction box like this be of any use ? A 3 core 15 Amp box?

http://cpc.farnell.com/eterna/cb15a/15a-lighting-connector-box/dp/LA04539

That's not really in-line but for any future readers yes these would be perfectly fine as another venue I've worked in have used these for their houselight circuit (tiny theatre!).

mikeydoesstuff said:
would butt splices not suffice? (I'd really love to know if this would be considered an unsafe practice)

That's a really good idea however it wouldn't look quite as neat? Plus later comment about temperature.

JoshMusgrave said:
i understand now, ive never seen those used in the UK only the screw terminal boxes I mentioned.

We definitely have butt splices in the UK!

theatricalmatt said:
If you were to use any wire nuts or other splices, make certain they're rated for the temperature. Most common wire nuts and butt splices aren't, but they do make ceramic wire nuts that would hold up.

If you're able to, you could replace the socket with one that has longer leads. Most PAR 16 sockets are very easy to replace -- there's a strain relief connector on the outside shell that needs to be removed, ut not much more than that.

Many places I've worked at remove the molded connector they presumably come with, and replace them with automotive disconnects, so that extensions can be made as long as needed. The disconnects are fairly discreet and low-profile, as opposed to wire nuts and others.

I suppose re-wiring them is a possiblity, I've never taken one to bits to look at it properly but was thrown off by the closed end terminal that they come with inside...

techietim · Sep 2, 2015

I also managed to get a chance to speak to the venue technician today about the birdies. He told me that he'd done it with solder joints at all different lenghts (to prevent shorting) and also used heatshrink on each joint and then over L&N also to incease the diameter; then heatshrink all of that.
He did comment that it would probably only be okay with the 230v birdies as they run at a lower current (~200mA) as opposed to 12V PAR16s which run at nearer 4A.

What are peoples thoughts about this? It sounds good to me providing the joints are well heatshrunk...

Chris15 · Sep 3, 2015

techietim said:
with solder joints at all different lenghts (to prevent shorting)

Leaving the other parts of his discussion aside, normally staggering your joints is less about preventing shorts and more about the joints being higher diameter than the surrounding cable, and so staggering them reduces the bulk that would otherwise develop...
Relying on staggered joints to avoid shorts would be an unwise idea without other protective measures...

mikeydoesstuff · Sep 3, 2015

techietim said:
That's a really good idea however it wouldn't look quite as neat? Plus later comment about temperature.

They're rated to carry the load the cable they are sized to from my understanding so heat shouldn't be an issue.

Chris15 said:
normally staggering your joints is less about preventing shorts and more about the joints being higher diameter than the surrounding cable, and so staggering them reduces the bulk that would otherwise develop...

I'd say that goes for any joint you create.

techietim said:
then heatshrink all of that.

remember that heatshrink is not a casing, and merely provides a physical barrier around the wire, If you are worried about heat anywhere else I'd be more worried about it here.

techietim · Sep 3, 2015

Chris15 said:
Leaving the other parts of his discussion aside, normally staggering your joints is less about preventing shorts and more about the joints being higher diameter than the surrounding cable, and so staggering them reduces the bulk that would otherwise develop...
Relying on staggered joints to avoid shorts would be an unwise idea without other protective measures...

That is true!

mikeydoesstuff said:
They're rated to carry the load the cable they are sized to from my understanding so heat shouldn't be an issue.

I'd say that goes for any joint you create.

remember that heatshrink is not a casing, and merely provides a physical barrier around the wire, If you are worried about heat anywhere else I'd be more worried about it here.

All true. I ordered some cable yesterday and am going to have a go at just doing a complete re-wire. Probably going to be the safest and easiest way to do it!

techietim · Jan 13, 2016

(I went for the rewire in the end - it worked and very nicely - I now have 2M birdies!)

Conventional Fixtures PAR16 cable extensions

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