best bet for very durable lights?

james_sv

Member
Hi, Guys -- my first post here, and hope it's an appropriate forum. We have a very small dance setup using just 4 LED PAR-64-style lights, plus a few other misc lights. Actually, after just a few months, we've gone from 4 to just 1 LED PAR-64; we unpack them and pack them about 7x/week (mount them on tripods), and we're finding that they're just not durable enough to handle this abuse. I'm guessing all PAR-64 LED lights are going to be similar. I've instructed our peeps to be as gentle as possible, but the damage is done and I'm thinking it's better to just get something better suited to abuse. Would a regular PAR light be best? It doesn't have to be PAR style exactly; we have to set these up pretty close, so PARs tend to be somewhat narrow angle for us. Any other suggestions?

Thanks!
 
What type of Par's were you using? If you had really low quality LED's it could be the problem wasn't so much the abuse as it was the fact that they simply were too poor of quality to handle that amount of use. If you had high quality LED's then it more likely a problem with your crew or your transportation.

Speaking of which, how are they packed for transport?

PAR's come in a wide variety of beam angles from very narrow to extra wide flood depending on what you buy, plus you could potentially put diffusion on them to make them even wider. So location shouldn't be too huge of a limitation. They certainly can be as wide if now wider than an LED fixture.

Finally, what's your budget? If you want a durable LED you are going to need to spend at least $500 per fixture. Incandescent PAR's on the other hand are dirt cheap. Some of the guys who work with rental gear should be able to point you to products that are less likely to die while on the road, but budget may be an issue.
 
If you've only had them a few months are they still under warranty? Are you transporting them in protective cases or are they bouncing around loose in a truck? As far as what to buy what kind of a budget do you have? Generally there are two schools of thought on this. One is to buy the nicest light you can afford, hoping it will have good build quality and last a long time. The other is to buy cheap lights, and just throw them away when they break and replace them with spares you bought with the original purchase or replace them with something new. In your situation I would probably lean towards the latter, and just budget to buy new lights on a regular basis. With all the setups and tear downs even a really good light could easily get damaged by accident. And the way the technology is progressing so rapidly you could be constantly upgrading to newer and better fixtures.
 
Guys, thanks for the great replies -- very helpful. I ordered these directly from China (I have folks there from another business venture who assist me) for a pretty lowball price (less than $200 each with shipping; it seems that virtually all LEDs are made in China anyway). So these are very much lower end. That's more my initial testing/cheapness than a strict budget issue, though -- I don't mind paying for the right light that lasts. But speaking of that.....

We are actually not transporting anything; we have to pack and unpack every day, from a metal cage. The lights are essentially unprotected; we don't deliberately bang them around, but we'd certainly do well to pad them with some foam or similar. Yes, this is my fatal flaw, and I have no excuse. FWIW, though, the lights didn't seem to break directly after any banging, but it could have damaged their structural integrity. Also, one broke when a crew member dropped it. That could have happened with any light.

It seems like there are much higher quality lights. I'm not sure how much more durable they would be; I don't have enough experience. A non-LED PAR would functionally work, but I worry that with our tripod setup, someone might brush it with an elbow or other appendage when it's hot. Not likely, but a small risk.

Warranty is a good idea.. I can ask about it. For a few units, the shipping from China will be costly. Still cheaper than a new light, I suppose.

Overall, I guess we're in the middle of a few potential solutions, with no perfect one. That's fine, and I accept this reality ;-) Again, you guys have been very kind -- much appreciated.
 
I would take a look at some of the smaller companies in the US who have lights manufactured in China, but then do quality testing here, and offer their own warranty and parts service here. I'm most familiar with Blizzard, but there are quite a few other ones offering things like that. You can get very inexpensive, quite high quality lights, and have some one that will answer the phone when you have a problem.
 
If you aren't actually transporting, what is the reason for daily storage? Outdoors? Security risk? Other use if space? Other?

It would seem funding for a more permanent installation solution might be desirable. Could also save a bundle in labor if conditions warrant it.
 
Low budget Chinese fixtures straight from the manufacturer is the flaw. With that much use, I would say there's a chance you would have had half of those fixtures break down in a permanent install. Anytime you buy a no name LED that cheap you have to consider it disposable.

I would take a look at some of the smaller companies in the US who have lights manufactured in China, but then do quality testing here, and offer their own warranty and parts service here. I'm most familiar with Blizzard, but there are quite a few other ones offering things like that. You can get very inexpensive, quite high quality lights, and have some one that will answer the phone when you have a problem.

This is a great idea. Blizzard makes good products that are far more reliable than generic straight from the manufacturer lights. I have a set of K9 lights BullDog LED PAR's. Yeah it's a Chinese made fixture but it's specified in the U.S., tested in the U.S. for quality, and sold by my local dealer as their house brand cheap LED option. While that raises the price a little, it also means if anything goes wrong I have two layers of people in the U.S. who care about my business protecting me. So call your local dealer and see what cheaper LED product they stock and recommend. Most decent sized dealers are going to have a chosen house brand.

On the other hand, if budget allows you can go the route of paying more for a higher quality product from a manufacturer who will stand behind them. Etc, Apollo, Chauvet, Altman, Elation, etc... ETC and Apollo build their LED fixtures in the good ol USA (some components still come from over seas). Yeah they cost more but LED's from these manufacturers should be far more reliable and if they break you should be able to get parts and repair them instead of throwing them away.

So which product is best for you? Give us an idea of the budget and how many fixtures you need and we should be able to help you. Also when you say the LED's are close, how close do you mean?
 
Thanks, guys! I checked out the Blizzard lights -- they look good. A next step might be to try a few to see how they look. I've tried to press for mounting the lights from the ceiling but the room is a multipurpose room used for other things (we don't own the building) so so far it hasn't gone anywhere but that would be the cleaner solution. Distance on tripods is about 12'-15' from the subjects, which feels pretty close, at least to me. I noticed that we can upload pictures so I'm going to hunt for one from before 75% of the lights broke, just to give an idea of the overall setup. Thanks so much, again, and I won't order anymore cheap lights.
 
Oh and for budget, the Blizzard lights are w/in range. We really don't need a lot of lights, which makes budget easier. I'd rather get something that's not going to break every few months. Thanks again.
 
I don't know if it fits your application, but today Full Compass has a "deal of the day" for a blizzard skybox for $299.
 
Thanks so much, again, and I won't order anymore cheap lights.

Well keep in mind a "cheap" light is a very relative term. I paid about $300 for my K9 Bulldog LED PARs. I consider them a somewhat reliable somewhat durable, short term solution to a lighting problem. They are the house brand Chinese LED my local dealer carries. They have been great for a year now, but I don't expect them to last more than 4 or 5 years. When they break down, I will probably have to throw them away rather than repair. On the other hand I just placed an order for ETC ColorSource PARs. I expect them to last until I get tired of them and want to order the next great technology that comes along. If they break along the way I know that I will be able to repair them. They also cost about $250 more than the Bulldogs. As always you get what you pay for.
 
Guys, pardon the delay -- I've been buried but am coming up for air. For reference, here are 2 photos of what our little room looked like with the 4 LEDs before 3 of them broke. You can see how close to the stage we have them. I'll also attach a video where we lit/lighted (is there an industry preference?) with a bunch of softbox video lights. Honestly, the video lights are way better and much less harsh if we're shooting videos, but the instructors strongly prefer the LEDs for whatever reason. Plus the video lights are kind of bulky and fragile in their own way. I wouldn't mind an alternative to PAR LEDs that's more photo/video friendly (or maybe I can just better adjust them), but any lighting beats no lighting. As you can see we are complete novices, so if we are doing this all wrong and there's a clearly better way, please suggest :)

Most importantly, thanks again for all the welcoming and great help.

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[[This YouTube video shows the "softer" video lights for reference... these are NOT the PAR LEDs that broke (shown in the photos below)]]

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really don't need a lot of lights, which makes budget easier. I'd rather get something that's not going to break every few months. Thanks again.

Hey, I've got the Blizzard Skyboxes in my shop. We've been sending them out for a few months and they've been great, no lost LEDs, no broken antennas, not even bent yokes (although, some hands worked extra hard and rolled the cases away while charging and busted the case's power con out of its mount.) Since you're putting your gear away daily the charging cases will be perfect for you. And If you ever do take them away from your space the case itself is only 50 lbs unloaded, so its no great effort to lift it into a van or truck. I absolutely reccomend them.
 
hey, Chauvet came by today, dont forget the slim par - Chauvet DJ is a little less expensive out of the box than some other stuff. They have a Battery and a non battery option.
 

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