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Vintage Lighting Century-Strand #3413 Fresnel

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by rustystuff, Nov 15, 2011.

  1. rustystuff

    rustystuff New Member

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    Does anyone out there have a data sheet (or ANY type of documentation) for a Century-Strand #3413 Fresnel? I got one at a local junk shop, and I think all it needs is a lamp. Lens, reflector, and socket look to be in good shape.

    Thanks!
  2. derekleffew

    derekleffew Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    Well, from the brand name we know it's from 1969-1976.
    It's in the Photometrics Handbook, Second Edition, page 59. A basic 2kW, 8" Fresnel (very similar to an Altman [-]75Q[/-] screw-feed 175Q) with mogul prefocus socket.
    Spot Beam Spread: 9° beam, 16° field. Flood Beam Spread: 21° beam, 33° field.*
    Standard lamp: BVW; Other lamps: BVT (cf=0.39)
    Spot focus: mf=0.29, bcp=392,000; Flood focus: mf=1.60,* bcp=68,800.

    I'd say it's worth <$50. A new lamp will cost more than that. Does it have asbestos wiring? If you intend to use it, that will need to be removed and replaced.


    *Error in book? :(
    Something is amiss with the Flood photometric specifications: A fixture with a 33° field angle cannot have an mf of 1.60.:!:
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
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  3. rustystuff

    rustystuff New Member

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    It's already had the asbestos wiring removed and replaced with a 5' long 12/3 cable. It could stand a repaint, too. Based on what you said, I guess I got a pretty good deal: I paid $5 for it.... :)
  4. derekleffew

    derekleffew Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    You have more work to do. The inner conductors of 12/3 Sxxx (anything) ARE NOT appropriate to withstand the heat inside the fixture. I forget--ask [user]ship[/user] (or use the search) for what wire he recommends using.

    EDIT: Perhaps this post: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...8-replacement-wiring-fixtures.html#post134227 and the rest of the thread might help.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2011
  5. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Nope, I have a 1989 #3680 8" Strand.
    Might be willing to trade - your's as is, mine back to factory spec. but I'm keeping the lens. (Off line). Been looking at the later 80's and early 90's section of the museum lately and thinking I should just trade them off in creating space for older gear. Obviously would have to keep the 360 collection together in having all four lots of it. Stuff like a brand new and never used 1993 Strand #2240 also though are not old enough to need. On the other hand... might just keep what I have and search to see if we have any origional ETC S-4 575w lamp caps left at work. I'm sure Wifie could build me an origional fixture from there to present. Should probably add that if I do retain the early 90's stuff on the fence about that given the 100+ year old gear, and holes filled in between periods and brands I'm acquiring without much space for.


    Back on-topic:
    The 12/3 cable if type S with letters following it or not is bad - only rated for 90c at best in temperature - you need wiring rated for 200c.

    Good price, bad news is the lens will run around $100.00 or more but any brand of lens aka Altman, L&E etc. will fit. (If creative though, could make it into a "Go Fres" in not buying a lens.) See Q of the day.

    On the other hand a new 8" Fresnel would cost lots more so with the work you need to do in wiring, painting, probably taking the whole thing apart and re-tapping or surfacing everything, than high temp oiling etc. You are still probably at least breaking even if not better.

    Not trying to sell/trade but frank as I work endlesss hours - like eight hours or more per fixture on old gear constantly. Somewhere around thinking... 400 or more older fixtures of all type and brand under the belt at this point within the past three years in telling you it isn't just that simple as a $5.00 fixture that is ready for use.

    Have a good look at the lamp socket - if corroded or arched, it don't persay have to be replaced but does need a proper cleaning and resurfacing. Otherwise you will be putting perfectly good lamps into bad socket which will quickly turn them into perfectly bad lamps quick. That along with the fixture cord changed in probably wrong making you suspicious of the proper parts like crimp terminals etc in use and other stuff as done to it.

    Good news it's a Century Strand - good quality fixtures and once in good condition should last forever. Search back in Controlbooth to the various notes I have done on Fresnel service calls or re-wiring. Different socket - same techniques. 12 ga. wire would be fine as long as the proper type.

    Start a new topic and take lots of step by step pictures for what you do and members can learn and help you along the way if wanted a fun project fixture to work on. Good education for all.

    Your fixture might be in the The University of Exeter School of Performance Arts, UK Stand Archive (website) The Strand Archive

    I also have some old Strand and Strand/Century & older catalogues that I'm TBA about to get copied to PDF and added to Controlbooth Wikk. Nope, your fixture isn't in the binders - sorry.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2011
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  6. kcraigie

    kcraigie New Member

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    Here are two of the Strand Century #3413 datasheets, one from 1970 and one from 1977. Looks to be pretty much the same info, but I'll admit that I didn't look incredibly close at either one.

    Hope it helps.

    Attached Files:

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  7. derekleffew

    derekleffew Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    Wow, thanks Kim!

    The second sheet confirms the error/typo in the Photometrics Handbook:
    The mf stated as "1.60" should be "0.60".

    But the first sheet really shatters my reality.:cry: I don't really know where I got that the Century Strand name changed to Strand Century in 1976, but your sheet clearly says "Copyright 1970" and in another place "H-5M-7-74" (1974). Strand - Chronology says
    but we know equipment from that time is branded Century Strand. Kim, or anyone, any thoughts on this?
  8. kcraigie

    kcraigie New Member

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    Derek, I was puzzled too! So I went straight to the source, Strand Lighting, to get an answer. Here's what I learned.

    1963 CENTURY acquired by Progress Ltg
    1964 CENTURY bought by Walter Kidd
    1967 STRAND ELECTRIC bought by Rank in UK
    1971 CENTURY bought by Rank, Name change to Century Strand
    1974 CENTURY STRAND flipped over to STRAND CENTURY
    1985 name change to STRAND LIGHTING

    There were some internal politics that disagreed how the name should display. People knew the products by the Century name, but Rank wanted Strand to get top billing. It appears Strand won over in 1974.

    As I would imagine, it took some time to recast the dies and switch over the metal plates on the equipment, much longer than it would take to update the logo and reprint a datasheet. I'm guessing on this, but it's possible that the datasheets were printed at a later date (hence the newer Strand Century logo), but that they left the "copyright 1970" mark on it for either protective or financial reasons.

    So, in essence, Derek, your dates weren't that far off. Considering I have difficulty remembering when I last had the oil changed in my car, I applaud your memory. :clap:
  9. derekleffew

    derekleffew Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    Thanks again Kim. I've incorporated your info into the timeline at Memory Lighting Control Systems, History - ControlBooth . I'm still a little fuzzy on Progress Manufacturing, Walter Kidde*, and Lighting Corporation of America**, however.

    *Interesting research on Walter Kidde & Company and its subsidiaries...

    From WAYNE TP. BD. OF ED. v. STRAND CENTURY, INC. - Argued January 8, 1980. :
    From Lifetime Brands, Inc. Company Profile, Information, Business Description, History, Background Information on Lifetime Brands, Inc.
    From Walter Kidde & Company, Inc. Bond Certificate - Stocklobster.com :
    How very curious that Walter Kidde & Company, owner of Century Lighting AND a fire safety company, would be named in a lawsuit concerning a dimmer fire. History, thou art a tempting mistress.:eek:

    **From 462 F2d 1265 Hadco Products Inc v. Walter Kidde & Company | OpenJurist :
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  10. rustystuff

    rustystuff New Member

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    Thanks, Ship - I'll start taking pictures tomorrow. Not sure how long this project will take, since I'll have to squeeze it in between other commitments (work) and whatever SWMBO ("She Who Must Be Obeyed") decrees.... :) The "before" pictures should be simple enough; the "during" and "after" pix may take a little longer!
  11. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    I am very glad to see you taking this Fresnel on for a personal project. Should be a great thing to work on and see brought back to fully working condition. Believe me, I already have a huge backlogged amount of gear to work on. Be looking for that play - seems appropriate for my conditions. No I don't have the option to spend a few $K in our money on antique or investments.

    For me, it's not as much about what I collect but what I work on in learning from it. Recently learned after like the third fixture that the LECO brand Leko from the late 50's was using per shutter retainer a slight bend to the shutter so as to end as tensioner. Wonder how many fixtures in the past I just flattened out that bend and thought they were weak in shutter retention later.

    Learn stuff every day from old fixtures - literally. Also on these fixtures, that they used a sort of plaster to block light between the body any radial lamp snout casting. Metal pineapple. I used high temp. silicone instead - have the plaster type stuff, just cannot see important enough to mix up given a mis-fit betweeen cast alumium lamp snout and the steel pineapple body casting. Silicone if high temp. works just as well.

    But I did learn stuff like technique and history.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  12. rustystuff

    rustystuff New Member

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    Here's the promised pictures. DSC01179.JPG DSC01180.JPG DSC01181.JPG DSC01183.JPG DSC01186.JPG DSC01187.JPG

    BTW - just got another "project" fixture: Kliegl Bros #3606 Fresnel. It needs a lens & reflector; everything else mechanically sound.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  13. derekleffew

    derekleffew Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    Yep, DO NOT use the fixture before replacing the 12/3 SO cord with appropriate 12 AWG heat-resistant wire! Let's not talk about what mineral that whitish pad under the socket might be. Unless you need the extra punch of the 2K BVW ($39-$59), I'd use the 1K BVT ($27-$34).

    Fairly definitive dating, from WFTY-DT - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :
    I wonder how it got from Long Island, NY to Orlando, FL? And kept the owner ID paint all these years?
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  14. rustystuff

    rustystuff New Member

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    I was wondering how it made it down here, too. "A long and winding road", no doubt. When I do the repaint on it, I'm going to leave the markings on there. Side note: When I bought this, the seller tried to make me believe that it came from the set of "Saturday Night Live".
    I'll probably stick to the 1K lamp, since I really have no need for the 2K. "Whitish pad"? I don't see no stinkin' pad... (Just kidding, ship....) Since the socket is in good shape, I'm leaving it (and the "pad") where it is.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  15. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Now Kliegl #3606 I do have a sample or two of.

    1) Kliegl #3606 6" Fresnel, c. 1978, - Texture Black: 500w G-9.5 EHD Medium 2Pin Lamp. (Replaced 6.1/4" Lens for fabricated 6" lens in stepping down.) (B.Bean)
    1) Kliegl #3606 6" Fresnel, c.1978, - Texture Charcoal Gray: 500w G-9.5 EHD Medium 2Pin Lamp. (B.Ship as provided from ASU collection)

    Nice fixture - imagine a Fresnel with a Leko lamp in it. Not an Altman 65Q but that's a bench mark. Not a bad Fresnel and a standardized lamp to boot.
  16. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    No apologies needed to me in not having any badges...

    Socket in good shape - seen that and under that not so good. Recommended full stipping of the fixture and re-wiring of it but each of us is a TD onto ourselves and what you do I don't and what I do you don't. We all come together on a basic sense of safety though as well expressed in ready to do so.


    Whitish pad = asbestos pad under the lamp socket, this unless coming from me as ceramic fiber as similar but not asbestos in replacement pad. Lots of asbestos about an old light. Per percentage of what one might see on a water pipe or fire curtain - certaily not as much. On the other hand if even survived the like 20 year exposure - new exposure to it ain't making you super hero in resitant to asbestos - just means you like me been lucky over the years. Next chance exposure to it is your nexxt 20 years later conformation that that last exposer wasnt cancer related to you if you didn't get it.
    Asbestos a bad thing in only like 15 to 20 years following exposure to it will you know if you were effected by it.

    My Whitish pads are ceramic pads and I replace all asbestos I find.
  17. Nelson

    Nelson Member

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    Sorry to get off topic, but I just brought an old Kliegl 3606 back into service after some minor repairs. Nice fixture except the beam it a little uneven at full flood because of the holes in the reflector that accept the lamp. As I intend to use it primarily for video lighting, I would like to find barndoors for it. I posted a note in the classifieds a while back if anyone has barndoors that fit the 3606 7" color frame holder.
  18. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Off topic or many topc at a time is part of the fun. What is the measurement your gel frame is will make it easy to figure out what you need to start in fabricating it.

    Mostly it's not a difficult project in such a 7" shutter assembly no-longer on the market. Not available and sorry but unless you want to direct copy your own - not something you can buy.


    So up to 8" in barn doors, now with them parts how to adjust mounting brackets to mount such a frame. Could be as simple as old gel frame or could get complex. Such a smaller gel frame attached to something else.

    That or barn doors are not that difficult to make.
  19. derekleffew

    derekleffew Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    Oh, how I do miss the idiosyncrasies of Kliegl fixtures. The colorframe for a 6" Fresnel (which is really a 6 & 3/8" Fresnel, why?) is 7" square, while a 6" ERS uses 6.5" colorframes. So much more fun in the gelroom than those rigid, stick-to-the-standards manufacturers with no imagination or creativity.

    /sarcasm off
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  20. Nelson

    Nelson Member

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    I certainly could fabricate barndoors, or better yet, just modify an existing set. However, I don't have an extra barndoor that I want to modify right now!

    Talking about standards, you have to give Kliegl credit for using standard EHD/EHG lamps in the 3606! Wouldn't it be nice if all of your fresnels used the same lamp as your ellipsoidals? Although because the socket sits perpendicular to the lens, you can't use GLA-style planar filament lamps in the 3606.

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