Edison to Stage Pin Questions

Shawncfer

Active Member
Okay, So I just got some free strip lights today. I don't know how good they are, but they work and each lamp is 300w and theres 16 lights all together divided by 4 dimmers, so yeah, I'm pretty happy.

HOWEVER, I have a couple questions I hope yall can answer for me.

In an Eddison plug, which ones Hot, and which is Neutral? I'm sure the bottom one is ground, but just wanted to be sure.

Second, Each lamp like i said is 300w, with 4 one one dimmer, soI'll only have 1200w on each dimmer. And our dimmers can handle 2400w, so I'm not worried about that. But the plug says its 125v. Im use to working with 120v, so is this going to be a problem? It says it on the eddison plug itself, not the lamo, and I don't have a manual to go along with the lights. I have ETC Sensor racks btw...

Third, I'm not planning on doing this, but just because I'm curious. The light has 4 male adapters, obviously to plug in. Which I'm going to convert to stage pin. It also has 4 female outputs so I can connect all 4 dimmers to another strip light:
proxy.php

Which since each dimmer will be holding 1200w off each light, if I add another strip it'll be 2400, and thats a little to close so I don't want to do it. But like I said, just because I'm curious, If I change the male end to stage pin, and If i wanted to connect it to another strip light that was using eddison, do I have to change the femal and male of the other one to stage pin or could they remain eddison?

EDIT:
Forgot to mention, the plug says 125v, but each bulb says 120v
 
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They will still draw 120v (ish, depending on your service), the plug is just rated for 125. As for your theoretical question, that would be just fine. The electricity is the same regardless of the arrangement of the little bits of metal that conduct is.
 
The plug says 125v because that's what it is rated for. If the dimmers output 120v then that's what you're gonna get - 120v. The plugs won't magically suck 125v out of your system, not that the 5v difference is significant to begin with.


Re hot and neutral. Black or copper is hot. White or silver is neutral. Green or bare is ground.

In's & Out's. Yes, the female edison pigtails at the end are for daisy chaining strips, and as you guessed, that would double your current draw if you connected another identical strip. You can lamp them down if you want. You can switch them over to stage pin, twistlock or keep them edison, just so long as you keep them female. <---that part's important!

You might check out this thread if you're in the mood for some confusion: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/20096-stage-pin-edison-dimmer-non-dim-plausible.html

No offense, but I'm surprised by how many people use these connectors on a regular basis, yet don't know the fundamentals behind them! I guess we all gotta start somewhere. I started young, so I'm a little insensitive I guess ;) .
 
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Okay, So I just got some free strip lights today. I don't know how good they are, but they work and each lamp is 300w and theres 16 lights all together divided by 4 dimmers, so yeah, I'm pretty happy.

HOWEVER, I have a couple questions I hope yall can answer for me.

In an Eddison plug, which ones Hot, and which is Neutral? I'm sure the bottom one is ground, but just wanted to be sure.
The larger flat pin or opening, or the one shaped like a T, is the neutral. When looking at a female with ground on the bottom, the neutral is on the left. When looking at a male with ground on the bottom, the neutral is on the right. When you open them up, one contact should be brass (this is hot), one should be silver (this is neutral), the the greenish one is obviously the neutral.

Second, Each lamp like i said is 300w, with 4 one one dimmer, soI'll only have 1200w on each dimmer. And our dimmers can handle 2400w, so I'm not worried about that. But the plug says its 125v. Im use to working with 120v, so is this going to be a problem? It says it on the eddison plug itself, not the lamo, and I don't have a manual to go along with the lights. I have ETC Sensor racks btw...
The plug is /rated/ for 125V. That's OK if your power is 120V and your lamps are 120V (which they are).

Third, I'm not planning on doing this, but just because I'm curious. The light has 4 male adapters, obviously to plug in. Which I'm going to convert to stage pin. It also has 4 female outputs so I can connect all 4 dimmers to another strip light:
proxy.php

Which since each dimmer will be holding 1200w off each light, if I add another strip it'll be 2400, and thats a little to close so I don't want to do it. But like I said, just because I'm curious, If I change the male end to stage pin, and If i wanted to connect it to another strip light that was using eddison, do I have to change the femal and male of the other one to stage pin or could they remain eddison?
Those are NEMA 5-15 female ends. They are rated for 15A at 125V. They can not handle 20A, and using them to do is against code. That's equal to 1800W = OK, 2400W = Not OK. You would need to swap out at least the male ends of the first striplight to be able to daisy chain, and I think you would also need to swap out the other set of ends - but I'm not sure about those rules. I would definitely never put exactly 2400W on one dimmer and expect it not to trip.

Oh, and it's Edison, one d.
 
Your concern about "pushing it too close" is somewhat irrelevant. ETC Sensor units are rated to run at capacity (2400W). You won't experience a breaker flip as long as you stay within (inclusive) the 0-2400W range.
 
No offense, but I'm surprised by how many people use these connectors on a regular basis, yet don't know the fundamentals behind them! I guess we all gotta start somewhere. I started young, so I'm a little insensitive I guess ;) .

Les, I agree with you.

What I don't understand is why in college (since the OP is listed as undergrad), you would be taught how a stage pin connection works and apparently some electrical theory, but not some basic code and the configurations of common plugs. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the OP asked, but I'm a little disappointed in his teachers.
 
Those are NEMA 5-15 female ends. They are rated for 15A at 125V. They can not handle 20A, and using them to do is against code. That's equal to 1800W = OK, 2400W = Not OK.

Okay so I get that concept. Watts = Amps * Volts.... So I'm a little confused. Since my dimmer puts out 20 Amps, but the plug is only rated for 15 Amps, would that be a problem if I didn't exceed 1800watts? (Which I dont plan on). Because my dimmer puts out 120v and the plug is rated for 125v. And once again, this is theoretically speaking. I plan on changing my plugs. I'm just here to learn as much as I can.

And its the plugs that are rated for 15amps right? So if I change it to a stage pin that can handle 120v and 20amps then i'll be good? Because all 4 lights are 1200w combined, and 120v... technically I only need 10 amps. But my stage pin plug can handle 20 amps so I'm good right?

And did I do my math right? 4lights at 300w each make 1200w, but each lamp says 120v. But I also know (from reading "Electricity for the Entertainment Electrician"...Which im reading right now) that Volts isnt current, it's what pushes the current. So does each lamp need 120v equaling 480v? Or is it just 120v overall?
 
Okay so I get that concept. Watts = Amps * Volts.... So I'm a little confused. Since my dimmer puts out 20 Amps, but the plug is only rated for 15 Amps, would that be a problem if I didn't exceed 1800watts? (Which I dont plan on). Because my dimmer puts out 120v and the plug is rated for 125v. And once again, this is theoretically speaking. I plan on changing my plugs. I'm just here to learn as much as I can.

Voltage is determined by the supply. Your dimmer is supplying the circuit with 120v, so that is what everything down the line will recieve. (ignoring drop-off which you don't need to worry about with what your doing)

Wattage is determined by the load. In this case the lamps, which total up to 1200w, so your wattage will be 1200w.

Amperage is a product of Voltage and Wattage. Since you have 1200w at 120v you are pulling 10A.

Your dimmer does not "put out 20A" it has a capacity of 20A. This means you can put a load of up to 20A on it without tripping the breaker. The plug needs to be rated for the load it is connected to. A 10A load is just fine on a 15A plug. However if you daisy chain another 10A load you'll have 20A on that plug, which will cause melting and fire.



And its the plugs that are rated for 15amps right? So if I change it to a stage pin that can handle 120v and 20amps then i'll be good? Because all 4 lights are 1200w combined, and 120v... technically I only need 10 amps. But my stage pin plug can handle 20 amps so I'm good right?

Correct, however before daisy chaining you have to make sure the wiring is rated for the Amperage you're going to be pulling through it. 14 gauge wire is fine for 15A but you need 12 gauge for 20A.

And did I do my math right? 4lights at 300w each make 1200w, but each lamp says 120v. But I also know (from reading "Electricity for the Entertainment Electrician"...Which im reading right now) that Volts isnt current, it's what pushes the current. So does each lamp need 120v equaling 480v? Or is it just 120v overall?

Your math is correct, 1200w. Without going into AC/DC circuits and Parallel vs Series wiring... in this situation and most if not all you'll encounter as a stage electrician, wattage and amperage add, voltage remains constant.
 
Les, I agree with you.

What I don't understand is why in college (since the OP is listed as undergrad), you would be taught how a stage pin connection works and apparently some electrical theory, but not some basic code and the configurations of common plugs. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the OP asked, but I'm a little disappointed in his teachers.

This is my first year of college. Im just starting. I was only in tech theatre my junior and senior year because I found it interesting. Before that I worked at a venue and a theatre as the person who just connected stuff. Or ran the board on ocassion. And even then, my tech teacher junior and senior year was horrible. Never taught me anything. In fact he was just fired because of the fact that he knew very little on the topic. He lied on his resume to get the job. He was just a theatre director who had expereince using the Express. Everything I know so far (which isn't much, don't get me wrong) Ive learned from reading books, reading manuals, and asking questions on here. And like I said, I'm not claiming to be an expert in the subject, but I think I've learned a pretty good amount for never actually being taught. I'm just new the whole electricity thing. Something I've never used. It was always plug this light in and patch it and focus it and whatever else. I never needed to change a stage pin to an eddison before. I know about how to do it. But have never actually done it. And since I'm going to tomorrow, I thought it would be nice to ask before I set something on fire..
 
Correct, however before daisy chaining you have to make sure the wiring is rated for the Amperage you're going to be pulling through it. 14 gauge wire is fine for 15A but you need 12 gauge for 20A.

How do I check the guage? And if I need to chane it, To i just change the cable from the plug to the light? And from the light to the next plug? Or do I need to change wire inbetween each of the 4 lamps in the lights as well?
 
How do I check the guage? And if I need to chane it, To i just change the cable from the plug to the light? And from the light to the next plug? Or do I need to change wire inbetween each of the 4 lamps in the lights as well?

Well, you would have to change ALL the wire. But, the fixture is designed with daisy chaining in mind, so you can most likely connect as many fixtures as your dimmers (or connectors) will handle. Altman lists a "per circuit" maximum wattage, which probably accounts for all devices connected to that circuit. I believe that number is 2400w but don't quote me on that. Give me a sec and I'll try to cite you a source.

Ok, here it is (PDF Warning):
http://www.stagespot.com/downloads/SP_R40.pdf

The spec sheet states 2400w max per circuit. I would assume this includes all downstream fixtures since they all pass-thru the first fixture in the chain. The wiring in the R40 strip is likely 12 gauge.
 
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Okay, So I just made this up in Paint right now so forgive me if they look like crap, But I just wanted to double check..

[EDIT by Mod: Incorrect drawing of Male Edison plug has been deleted.]

proxy.php

The Nema one is like looking at the front of the the male end facing towards you..
 
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Close, in your nema 5-15 drawing the "HOT" should be the SMALLER of the two blades.

Remember, one hand in the pocket!:grin:

oh, to be clear. don't change the labeling, you have it labeled correctly. Swap the blade sizes, smaller = HOT. Larger = neutral
 
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You have the neutral and hot switched on the Edison connector, otherwise this is correct.

Les the connectors on these fixtures are 15 amp and would overload if just 2 of them were connected together so I would definately not assume anything about the gauge of the wire inside. Its possible it's only designed to be daisy chained if it is lamed down to 225w or less.

edit: Please have someone qualified check any work you do on these fixtures, or even better be there to help you while you do it.
 
This is my first year of college. Im just starting. I was only in tech theatre my junior and senior year because I found it interesting. Before that I worked at a venue and a theatre as the person who just connected stuff. Or ran the board on ocassion. And even then, my tech teacher junior and senior year was horrible. Never taught me anything. In fact he was just fired because of the fact that he knew very little on the topic. He lied on his resume to get the job. He was just a theatre director who had expereince using the Express. Everything I know so far (which isn't much, don't get me wrong) Ive learned from reading books, reading manuals, and asking questions on here. And like I said, I'm not claiming to be an expert in the subject, but I think I've learned a pretty good amount for never actually being taught. I'm just new the whole electricity thing. Something I've never used. It was always plug this light in and patch it and focus it and whatever else. I never needed to change a stage pin to an eddison before. I know about how to do it. But have never actually done it. And since I'm going to tomorrow, I thought it would be nice to ask before I set something on fire..

That explains it better, and I really didn't mean any offense towards you. I'm glad that you were not discouraged by your previous teacher. It's always good to ask questions. As somebody will soon say, if someone has not already, if you can find someone experienced to walk you through this the first time or two, or to check your work that would be beneficial.
 
Okay, So I just got some free strip lights today. I don't know how good they are, but they work and each lamp is 300w and theres 16 lights all together divided by 4 dimmers, so yeah, I'm pretty happy.

HOWEVER, I have a couple questions I hope yall can answer for me.

In an Eddison plug, which ones Hot, and which is Neutral? I'm sure the bottom one is ground, but just wanted to be sure.

Second, Each lamp like i said is 300w, with 4 one one dimmer, soI'll only have 1200w on each dimmer. And our dimmers can handle 2400w, so I'm not worried about that. But the plug says its 125v. Im use to working with 120v, so is this going to be a problem? It says it on the eddison plug itself, not the lamo, and I don't have a manual to go along with the lights. I have ETC Sensor racks btw...

Third, I'm not planning on doing this, but just because I'm curious. The light has 4 male adapters, obviously to plug in. Which I'm going to convert to stage pin. It also has 4 female outputs so I can connect all 4 dimmers to another strip light:
proxy.php

Which since each dimmer will be holding 1200w off each light, if I add another strip it'll be 2400, and thats a little to close so I don't want to do it. But like I said, just because I'm curious, If I change the male end to stage pin, and If i wanted to connect it to another strip light that was using eddison, do I have to change the femal and male of the other one to stage pin or could they remain eddison?

EDIT:
Forgot to mention, the plug says 125v, but each bulb says 120v

As a norm, anything strip or cyc light with feedthrough is 12ga (20a) in wiring. The fact that it has commercial grade Edison connectors on it by way of its end user has nothing to do with the internal wiring though the internal wiring and especially the sockets for the lamps would also be good to professionally inspect. (Past debate about me having learned I thought a 5-15 commercial grade receptacle - given it’s the same as a 5-20 Edison was ok, for theater temporary use. Lost that debate I believe in not finding the article, still though that thought was stuck in my head from somewhere and perhaps with others.) Beyond that the Edison plug is I do know ok by code to use. Not the best choice but is ok to use. This not persay code if feeding another instrument but they are commercial grade plugs/receptacles and fine if properly installed. (Another detail to check as often not done correctly by way of wire strip length, tension or strain relief.)

A bit concerned about your asking about hot/neutral by way of training. (Good and smart to ask of course,) which is which by way of color code or how to detect either wire concerns me given your past reading of books and other training. This not mostly due to not yet realizing in an immediate sense to learn what you read but in not having the training in proper tension on the terminals and strain relief on the plugs in making it immediate to you that what you read or re-read should have clicked in. This than in training you already know that part. It concerns me in your training - on site beyond book that should also have told you the answer to this question, beyond that on-site reinforcement and further personal training beyond the book as very important.

Gauge of the wire stripper in closest fitting to the stripped wire will tell you what size of wire you have. Beyond that, get supervision and now that this is immediate to you re-read the books read in they should tell you the rest such as center contact is the hot and shell of the screw base is always the neutral.

Hoping this helps in again hitting the books now that it’s an immediate question to re-learn what you read, and that you get supervision and training on what has not been so far sufficiently further trained. Very smart to ask and while you read the books, now they should become more immediate to your situation in learning more from a re-read. Hope it helps in having done the best possible thing you could - asking before you do.

Also side note..., loose the metallic watch while working, while it might not shock you at times it just could.
 

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