Our media department received this message and I don't know if it's right - we've been using gaff tape for years: "Guys, Had a walk through with the Fire Marshall yesterday. 1 Item in the Auditorium; the wires for the confidence monitor from the first row seats to the stage cannot be held in place with gaff tape, must be in a wire way (flex type is OK)." Can you only use gaff tape for temporary events? (We're in New York state, btw)
Fire Code question
- Thread starterMoonsp1ke
- Start date
My question would be more so on what you've gaff taped the cables to. I know from my high school job as a cable monkey that in commercial buildings, for example, you cannot zip tie low voltage (data, phone) cabling to the wire ceiling grid supports. This was common practice for a long time (especially in retrofits), but it's apparently against code to use certain things in the overhead to support cable, high voltage or otherwise unless they are designed to accomodate additional loading. In some cases we were required to install raceways to support just a few cables, but in newer construction the raceways would be planned along major cable runs to handle the extra weight.
Is this taped to the floor though? Can you provide a photo of the setup?
Is this taped to the floor though? Can you provide a photo of the setup?
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Move the confidence monitor 5' one way, in 180 days move it back, repeat endlessly?? Theres a certain resort here that has a tent they leave in one place for 180 days, move to the other side of the property for the next 180 days, then move back endlessly so they keep temporary fire code rules.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
So this
http://www.pmspower.com/products/D-2_Rubber_Duct_Cord_Cover.jpg
is okay? (Although would likely be much safer if the edges were gaff taped to the carpet!)
As we learned in this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/long-term-portable-lighting-system-use.22016 , the NEC makes a somewhat firm distinction between permanent, temporary, and portable.
Do what your AHJ tells you, no matter how much you (or we) disagree. Unless you can make your case without alienating him/her, a very fine needle to thread.
Dionysus
Well-Known Member
As usual I have to agree with Bill. There is a REASON for rules on "temporary installation" especially with electrical. Extension cables should NEVER be used on a permanent basis for a variety of reasons. Plus with a cable taped down in a "permanent" installation on the floor is going to be walked on and wheeled over many many times, degrading and damaging the cable.
When designing the space power needs should be accounted for, and receptacles placed where needed. This is CODE for non-residential occupancy, as there is no requirement to have a minimum spacing for receptacles as there is in residential occupancy (they are actually spaced so you really shouldn't ever need an extension cord in your home).
Plus it looks like hell.
Dionysus
Well-Known Member
So this
http://www.pmspower.com/products/D-2_Rubber_Duct_Cord_Cover.jpg
is okay? (Although would likely be much safer if the edges were gaff taped to the carpet!)
As we learned in this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/long-term-portable-lighting-system-use.22016 , the NEC makes a somewhat firm distinction between permanent, temporary, and portable.
Do what your AHJ tells you, no matter how much you (or we) disagree. Unless you can make your case without alienating him/her, a very fine needle to thread.
Typically still for "permanent installation" this is not okay, but it sounds like the AHJ is going to let them get away with using this as it does provide some mechanical protection to the cables (tape does not).
Dionysus
Well-Known Member
Of this I am well aware, however that is the "spirit" of the code. As far as the AHJ is concerned moving your stuff a little to the left or right to make it so you don't need a cord is what you should do. Unless it really is temporary then use a cord. Hence my language "really shouldn't need" not "absolutely don't need".
AlexDonkle
Active Member
Just a note, if you add a wireway, you cannot put the power and data in the same one. They must be separated for permanent install. Like Bill suggested, just tape the data down outside the raceway. There are raceways available with built-in voltage dividers for this reason, but they're more expensive.
So how does one handle something like this?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E0R60JO/?tag=controlbooth-20
Two conduits going into the same box?
Similarly, how does one wire a box intended for Meyer VEAM CIR connector outlet s?
AlexDonkle
Active Member
So how does one handle something like this?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E0R60JO/?tag=controlbooth-20
Two conduits going into the same box?
Similarly, how does one wire a box intended for Meyer VEAM CIR connector outlet s?
Good question. NEC has an exception for this condition, specifically for this type of jack. NEC 800.133, they're allowed to share a j-box (not a conduit) so long as there's 2" of separate inside the box between power and communication conductors. This is somewhat rarely done in practice on the commercial projects I've worked on. Most projects will use separate outlets, or a 2-gang box with voltage divider inside the box.
On the Meyer VEAM, I'm not really sure how NEC views that.
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
Wait; that's code now?
Dionysus
Well-Known Member
Not sure about there, but here Division between line and low voltage has been code for a LONG TIME (~20 years). Usually Box dividers if using the same J-Box, with separate conduits as stated. Physical separation alone is no good here however (inside a box). But typically separate boxes are used. A really good example of this is "floor boxes" with both low-voltage and line-voltage, if you look closely they come with dividers built in to many models.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
If you look at the link, its "frequently sold together with" abox with a barrier. There is no mixing of line and low voltage required by the device. There are a number of barriered boxes. I just installed one in my kitchen renovation in a very high cabinet for power to a transformer and low voltage to some led under cabinet
Lights.
Lights.
garyvp
Active Member
In my theater (in NYC) I carefully control access to Gaffers tape due to the propensity of the various crews to use it (or misuse it) for just about anything, especially having to do with electrical cables. I hate it when they tape power cables to the floor. If its permanent then the FM is correct - you need a proper raceway installed. If temporary then use an allowable rubber raceway. We always use tie line or even wire ties for cabling to the grid as getting the tape off is a pain. Most of our theatrical lighting electrical distribution is conduit-based, which some of our lighting designers gripe about (at first), and it greatly minimizes this issue.
