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Genesis Dimmers

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by propmonkey, May 6, 2005.

  1. propmonkey

    propmonkey Active Member

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    So next week im going to go back to my old middle school and setup a nice general lighting. my question is what are the dimmers reated too? they dont say. Its a Teatronics inc. Genesis "comstar" and it also says 1224 on them. well there are 12 dimmers so would i be say to think that 24 is meaning 2400W? also i looked on the breakers on the front the only number on them is a 10. Its controlled by Teatronics "Tech Director" 12 channel board. I saw on the back of the dimmers there is (waht i think is DMX in and out) and they are being controlled with some really thick cable(only siad 1-12) which when i tried to tighten it i was shocked. they have soem good instruments there fro being a middle school. 9 360Q's, 13 6" fersnels, and 3 colortran 30,40,50 mini ellipses. currently it makes me sick. they are so horrible focused(if you can call it that) a gel is melted on one, cobwebs in another and a few gels hanging out. next tues im going to make it all better.

    i just dont want to over load the dimmers. im hoping its 2400 or atleast 1300.
  2. zac850

    zac850 Active Member

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    If it says 10 on the breakers, I'd assume that means there 10 amp breakers, meaning you have 1200 watts per whatever the circuit breaker is on (I presume per dimmer).

    Did you try to find the manufacture website? Usually that will give you a good answer.
  3. propmonkey

    propmonkey Active Member

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    ok im a dumbass and didnt look for it first. but on the site it says its rated to 20amps. so what do i believe the 20 on the website but the breaker says 10.
  4. Peter

    Peter Active Member

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    I think that "really thick cable labled 1-12" might be an analog control system. Look if perhaps it's labled 0-10V. Our old sytem was setup like this with each of the 24 channels having an individual wire with what i asume was variable voltage going out to each channel. (the weird thing was, we never had any idea where this cable went, randomly arround the cealing XLR cables dropped out and those were connected to our "dimmer boxes" (220V in with 4-6 edison plugs out, each a differnt channel, and the "start channel" was selectable on each box))

    Not sure if that really helps with the dimmers at all though... just thought I might be able to shed a bit of light on that "big cable"
  5. propmonkey

    propmonkey Active Member

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    yeah, thats the one that i got a shock from. my hand is still hurting. i went to tighten it up and its not rubber in the end or grounded appearntly
  6. propmonkey

    propmonkey Active Member

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    oh and for some reason im thinking ithe cable is D-54 or something like that.
  7. Peter

    Peter Active Member

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    ouch!

    I dont know what the designation is on it. Before our rennovation we were told to label anything we wanted saved during demolition, so we put big tags arround both ends of the cable (where it comes out of the wall on both sides) and what did we come back to find a few months later... one end of the cable chopped off and placed on our desk!!! So I still dont know what it went into! We were trying to keep it as a portable system, but now the school has gotten rid of all the 220V plugs execpt the few in the Aud. and in the welding shop, but none in the cafe or gym where we would most likely bring the portable system. So, it's kinda a lost cause anyway, still, i thought it was quite funny to find the end of the cable left on my desk!
  8. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    If the circuit breaker attached to a dimmer says 10 amps, than there is no way possible that the dimmer fed by it will do more than 1,200w. Simple as that.

    I agree that 12/24 to me means 2.4Kw most often, but given the circuit breaker no matter if origional to the pack or after market improvement to it, that 1.2Kw per channel is what you have to work with per dimmer.


    After this, also consider the overall power available to these packs. Some members here will attest to non-sufficient power to light the show with no matter what type of equipment they have. It's possible that this gear is 10a. for a reason in that what source poweres it up can't provide more power than that safely.

    Contact the head of the maintinence staff at the old school and ask. While probably not the most in-depth in understanding, if given patience and need by someone worth their time, they no doubt will have some useful information about the equipment and it's capacity. No doubt how many phases and type of power source will also than become a part of this question.

    First is current per dimmer, but over even that is maximum loading of all dimmers. Than there is the 80% factor. It's bad Karma to overload by more than 80% capacity when you can other than absolutely help it.
  9. propmonkey

    propmonkey Active Member

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    the circuit breakers on the wall are 2.4kw. they are currently only using 7 of the 12 dimmers and im not sure why. im sure there is sufficent power.

    and if i put to 360Q's @ 750w on one dimmer how bad will that be?
  10. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Perhaps some dimmers have stopped working?

    750w + 750w = 1,500w.
    10a x 120v = 1,200w.
    1,500w - 1,200w = a circuit breaker blowing.


    On the other hand Beteween the FLK/HX-600, FLK-LL/HX-601, GLC/HX-602, GLA/HX-603 and HPR 575w/115v lamps on the market, you could on average have just as much light (progressively so in getting better) and a better color temperature all while not blowing a 1.2Kw dimmer as it seems.

    No real reason to be using EHG lamps any longer.

    You than can use two fixtures per dimmer.

    Seven 20a circuit breakers does not much make sense unless one is for the light board or other side features of the dimmers.

    On the other hand, if you have six 20 amp breakers and 12 dimmers controlled by them, than 1.2Kw per dimmer makes a lot of sense.
  11. propmonkey

    propmonkey Active Member

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    well this school hasnt gotten new lamps ever, i talked my theatre into donated 8 BTL's for the fersnels and 2 EHG's for the other 360Q's. i see so much i can do. now i just have to figure out what gets plugged into what.

    edit i may try to "lose"3 FLK's...but we just got a new batch in, and we wont get anymore untill the fall.
  12. Les

    Les Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I would guess its about 10 amps per channel if it's portable.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
  13. propmonkey

    propmonkey Active Member

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    well i just plotted it out and made a schedule for it. the most i have on one dimmer is 1000w. and ill have one free dimmer. for once i have actully plotted and planned before doing something. it feels good helping other out.
  14. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    No matter how it might help a show specifically, keep to the concept here if I have anything useful as term. "The Show Must Go On, Only Without You It Still Will". This quote as changes to fit the need but still has the same sense of "the show must go on, and any one member, concept or design is not to be replaced in it's in the end surviving.

    In other words, while if you have a special or gobo you need a third generation FLK lamp (as opposed to 4th generation lamp), don't take them out unless for a very specific purpose. Screwing over your home in reckless abandon for one expression of it might be art, but silly in it's overall sense without specific purpose as opposed to using them for a more broad extent of art in general. Such extra FLK lamp won't even match up anyway.

    Just work with what you have unless you need a follow spot amongst incandescent seeming luminaries for a special purpose. Such a FLK amongst EHD lamps will than be a follow spot of difference in light output.

    You also are going to find that the EHG is much similar in some similar sense of overall output to that of the FLK. One should consider them the same lamp at different wattages.

    Given they (FLK & EHG) are the same approximate cost and it's approved, perhaps than you can substitute with permission given you are wattage restricted.

    Always make sure that at least if one of your lamps blows it's replacled, if not such usage pays it's rent.
  15. Teatronics

    Teatronics New Member

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    Teatronics Dimmers and AIC Breaker Rating

    I wanted to clarify the ratings on our dimmers as there has been some confusion in the past. Our 1224 dimmers mean there are 12 dimmer channels at 2.4KW (20 Amps) each. The confusion starts when you look at the channel breakers and see a 10 in white letters. This 10 indicates 10,000 Amps interrupting capacity; which pretty much means this is the maximum current the breaker can see for just an instance is 10,000 Amps. Any breakers AIC ratings less than that will probably melt upon a dead short!
    The KEY is to look on the END of the HANDLE where you will see the actual rating of the breaker; in this case 20. I hope this helps.
    JSJ
  16. Teatronics

    Teatronics New Member

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    Teatronics Genesis 1224 dimmer packs are 12 channels x 2.4KW.

    They utilize a Square D 20 Amp Q0120HM circuit breaker.

    They are rated at 20 Amps and if you look closely on the breaker you will see the '20'.

    Unfortunately Square D labels the end of the breaker handle with a '10'.
    This '10' stands for 10,000 Amp interupting current.

    In other words the breaker can handle a very momentary inrush of up to 10,000 Amps.

    Less expensive breakers with less than a 10 AIC rating will trip upon ovderload but will in all likelyhood also MELT!

    BTW Teatronics 20 Amp dimmers are tested at 2500 watts with ALL channels at full for an extended period of time with no failures.
  17. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    Thanks for the info, however before we break back into this thread.... its nearly 7 years old.
  18. waynehoskins

    waynehoskins Active Member

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    Old thread, but since the Teatronics guy is here, I've got a quick question. (Feel free to break this off into its own thread if you like)

    I have two original Genesis packs (with the T-mux cards) at my church. Is there a source for the Comstar cards (and are they compatible with the original Genesis)? I'm currently using an ETC Response demux to feed analog to the dimmers, which works fine, but direct DMX in would be so attractive.

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