I'm suddenly the church "lighting expert" because I said I'd help. Help!!!

[New To Stage Lighting]

My field of expertise is mobile production video. I've never done any stage lighting before and wow! There's a lot to it...

My current dilema (and why I signed up here) is that we're a new church who inherited a building with an old 1940's cathedral style sanctuary (long and tall). So now I'm trying to figure out how to light from the balcony from about 75 feet away... Oh, and on a budget. Did I say it's a new church?

I've been looking at ellipsoidals, but it seems like they are primarily for closer than 75'. But the follow spots either are too expensive or don't have the same features. Any ideas?

GOAL:
- Have a source on both sides of the balcony for a key/fill.
- Have 2 more for background lighting (the background is about 25' wide and 40' tall and we have no way to work off the ceiling, which is why I'm working from the balcony.

Budget: I'm guessing they'll go for somewhere between $1000 - $1,500 total.

Thanks so much for any help in advance!

 

[AudJ]

More questions than answers - There are ellipsoidals that can go over 75', but only a couple would consume your budget. Even if you got some, and installed them on the balcony, unless it is very high, it will blind anyone facing them. Is there electric on the balcony, or elsewhere that you plan on using? Assuming 20 amp circuits, you can only operate 2, possibly 3 fixtures from a single circuit, assuming proper wiring and cables, which again add $, and would have to be verified to safely operate.

My preference would to get closer, because a shorter distance would give more fixture options. But this would likely involve rigging something - you would have to hire out, and of course get electric to those positions.

How do you plan on controlling the fixtures?

 

[MarshallPope]

A couple of pictures of the space would allow us to better help you.

Are sidelights an option?

 

[Timothy A. Samuelson]

I've encountered a similar situation before. Do you have exposed trusses in the ceiling? I'm with @MarshallPope, some pictures would make things a lot easier from this end.

 

[New To Stage Lighting]

More questions than answers - There are ellipsoidals that can go over 75', but only a couple would consume your budget. Even if you got some, and installed them on the balcony, unless it is very high, it will blind anyone facing them. Is there electric on the balcony, or elsewhere that you plan on using? Assuming 20 amp circuits, you can only operate 2, possibly 3 fixtures from a single circuit, assuming proper wiring and cables, which again add $, and would have to be verified to safely operate.

My preference would to get closer, because a shorter distance would give more fixture options. But this would likely involve rigging something - you would have to hire out, and of course get electric to those positions.

How do you plan on controlling the fixtures?

Electrical is not going to be a problem. I've requested (and they are fulfilling it), 3 dedicated 30amp circuits up top - left right and center. But getting closer is simply not an option other than lighting that is on the stage. I'm uploading pictures in a few minutes.

 

[New To Stage Lighting]

I've encountered a similar situation before. Do you have exposed trusses in the ceiling? I'm with @MarshallPope, some pictures would make things a lot easier from this end.

Here's some photos. The one from the balcony view unfortunately did not turn out. But as you can see, it's high and long. And yes, while there are overhead trusses, the problem is that the church doesn't have a way to get up there. I know sounds weird. But it's a weird situation. The building was given to us recently out of the blue. But we don't have any money to do anything (like rent scissor lifts), and we don't have enough volunteers yet to get much done. I'm getting 3 30amp circuits put up in the balcony, but that's just because an electrician who goes there volunteered to do that. See what I mean? So mounting to those beams isn't much of an option right now, because even if we get them up there by renting whatever we need to rent once, we won't have a way to manage, adjust, etc. because we can't afford to continue renting equipment (and don't have the man power yet to deal with all the work of moving pews, etc to even get to them).

So really, the deal is that I will be using the balcony. So what I'm hoping to find out is the best solution working under that assumption.

Also, I measured it and it's 80' from the balcony to the back wall of the stage (so about 65' to where the pastor speaks).

 

[New To Stage Lighting]

A couple of pictures of the space would allow us to better help you.

Are sidelights an option?

Side lights are not an option. It must come from the balcony. I've uploaded photos on the string and the reasons why it needs to be from the balcony.

 

[AudJ]

Try this: http://www.etcconnect.com/minisite/sourcefour/metrics.html

You'll want to check beam spread, brightness, coverage etc. from your distance. All available on etcconnect.com. You may be able to get some in your price range, but not sure how many. Used might be a way to go. If you can get at least 14 degree, that might help, but it depends what you are lighting.

I am not confident you will get the desired look from there, but anything is a start sometimes. Tripods might be a temporary solution.

It might be worth seeing if your electrical contractor has done anything like this before. Mine installed side ladders on the walls when they put in the electric. Need the lift though...

 

[n1ist]

Before putting in 30A circuits, make sure you really need them. You can't put 20A receptacles on a 30A circuit unless you have 20A breakers for each one, either in-line or on a distro. You are likely better off putting some 20A circuits up there instead.

/mike

 

[Amiers]

I think you could get away with putting lights on the legs of the truss that is closes to the stage and hang them high enough for whatever size ladder you have around. The balcony just seems like it is going to be a hassle. Just my opinion.

 

[Timothy A. Samuelson]

I really think hanging from the first truss is your best option. That throw distance is going to be hard to deal with on a low budget. That's just my opinion. The tripod mounted side lights might also be an option. Another thought is to do side lights from high up on the wall directly in front of that first column. A 24' extension ladder would be all you need to get up there. But a word of caution. If you don't think you have the manpower to do an initial hang, what makes you think the manpower will be available for service, focus, relamp, etc? Looks like you've got the barn, now time to get Uncle to help you out with some logistics and funding. Sit down brainstorming meetings and equipment demos are always a good way to go on a project like this. Especially as a community theatre or church where there are more than just a few hands in the pot. A thought regarding your background lighting, are you talking front light for the faces, or actually background. If the latter, some cheap LED Pars on the floor uplighting would be a quick solution that is easily accessible. Most of them come with the double yoke nowadays anyway. Just thoughts. I don't know your entire situation, but it sounds to me like you're locked into one method and immediately discounting some other options that are worth exploring. Starting here was a good step, but maybe find somebody local that can come in and actually talk with you instead of us looking off of a few pictures. In the end, anything is possible. You just have to know what you're working towards.

 

[StradivariusBone]

What about renting a couple supertowers and a truss for across the front of the stage? Temporary for sure, but it'd buy you some time to really plan this out. I'm also on team don't light from the balcony. Without plan dimensions it's hard to tell, but that angle looks relatively low and the throw distance seems pretty gruesome. Ideally, you want 45 degrees on the front wash.

Also, it almost certainly would warrant an architectural engineer doing a study on those roof trusses to determine if they can support additional loads.

 

[robartsd]

I'd be looking into creating sidelight positions from the walls just in front of the truss closest to the stage. 2-4 20 amp circuts on each side would be a decent start. Create the positions as high as you can reasonably get with the ladder you can borrow (for free) or buy so you don't need to rent equipment for mantainence. (You might need to get a budget for renting equipment for the instal though.) Shouldn't need ot move many pews to get to this location. If you can't afford the install, you mibht place tripods at these locations as an intermediary solution (the same fixtures could be used on the tripods as the throw distance will be similar and the circuits could be run to a box at floor level then extended up to the pernament location later). The intermediary solution might not provide much better vertical angle, but it might not be as harsh when coming from further to the side. If you really can't do the sidelight thing, I'd go with a single followspot from the rear of the balcony.

I also like the idea of uplight from the stage deck for background lighting. This with creative use of the exsiting house lighting may provide enough to do something interesting as your congrigation builds.

 

[venuetech]

well if it must come from the balcony for starters rent or borrow some par cans with very narrow lamps for a week. that will give you and others an idea about what you are working with. my guess would be that position will get an unfavorable review from the pulpit, due to the glare. I think you need to develop a plan to create positions closer to the stage. I would agree that some led par's would likely prove useful.

 

[gafftaper]

First of all, Welcome to The Booth!

I'm One more vote for... don't use the balcony. You are going to blind the pastor and he won't be able to see the congregation because all he will see is the sun in his eyes. He will hate the lighting every time he gets up there and beg you to turn it off. If you don't believe us borrow a light from someone or get the brightest flashlight you can find and stand in the balcony and shine it at the pastor. You do not want to be standing for an hour a week staring directly into a couple thousand watts of light at that low of an angle.

Solution. Go buy yourself some DJ LED lights. Go to the local plumbing store and get yourself some chunks of 2" Schedule 40 pipe (with 90 degree turns, and flanges). Get the two tallest ladders you can find and bolt a pipe on the wall on each side of the stage to hang the lights from. Stand at center stage looking straight to the back. Hold your arms out to the side to make a 90 degree angle from straight to the back and straight to the sides. Now move your arms forward until you are pointing at the 45 degree angle half way in between those two points. Try to put the pipe at that point (from the picture it looks like directly under that first cross beam would be about right). Hang the lights off of the pipe. Done. Save your money for a real lighting system when you can mount stuff to the overhead beams.

If you don't have a local dealer you work with, which is always my first choice, contact ControlBooth member @BillESC (Click Inbox in the upper right corner and then click start conversation). I bet Bill can set you up with a great little LED system for well under $1000.

The new member board is mostly for introducing yourself. I'm moving this to the lighting forum so it will get more attention.

 

[microstar]

Hopefully you meant 1.5" schedule 40 pipe!

 

[gafftaper]

ACK! Did I say 2" (I needed a nap when I wrote that). Yeah 1 1/2" Schedule 40 pipe, which is about 2" on the outside but 1 1/2" on the inside. I was thinking that it's called 2" but it's actually 1 1/2". I got my nap and feel better!

 

[StradivariusBone]

What kind of service are you all running? If it's more contemporary, you might want to consider uplighting from behind the stage. It gives off decent ambient light and makes it look a lot more "modern".

We just did this at my church for less than $2000. We have 8 PARs for front wash and a similar issue with poor places to light from.

Those PVC frames were eventually covered with fabric and will eventually be replaced with semitransparent coroplast formed into square pillars. We also took some old LED light bars we replaced with newer ones and use that as side lighting on the vocalists from the floor.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[StradivariusBone]

Sorry for the multiple posts- I'm trying to get these off my phone with bad service. Here's with the fabric on them and the side light on the vocalists. I think we're going to eventually move the fabric behind the screens and have pillars where the fabric stands are now. I should also mention that any fabric used like this should be fire retardant or treated with FR.

Not sure if this gives you any ideas, but I feel your pain of trying to drive a Cadillac like it's a Porsche.

Here are the lights we purchased for this-

http://www.americandj.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ItemNumber=1557
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005ES7VSW/?tag=controlbooth-20
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/414665.html

We had these guys on the big curtains on the outside of the stage- http://www.americandj.com/pdffiles/mega_bar_50rgb.pdf

All of them are cheap and probably not durable, but work for what we needed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BillESC]

Gafftapers suggestion of some DJ style LED fixtures is a good one.

Instead of schedule 40 pipe and fittings, two lengths of Unistrut lagged to the first truss legs gives you all the support needed for small light weight LED fixtures and 20 amps per side is more than enough power.

From that possition Blizzard Lighting's HotBox 5 RGBAW will work well for you. With 7 x 15w 5 in 1 diodes a full pallette of colors is available and there are both barn doors and a diffusion panel as options. MAP is $ 229.99

http://www.blizzardlighting.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&layout=item&id=231&Itemid=197