Control/Dimming Leviton D4DMX and ETC console

tayklor

Member
Here's my situation, I have a Leviton D4DMX dimmer pack. It seems to work fine on Leviton controllers, but when used with ETC consoles, channels will randomly jump to full or off for a split second. There seems to be no rhyme or reason behind when the flickering will occur or on what channel. I have tested it with a MicroVision FX, an Insight 2 (on both universes) and on a Zero88 FatFrog. I tried adjusting the DMX output speed on the Insight 2 from max to slow, and it did not seem to have an effect on the flickering at all. The MicroVision, Insight and FatFrog are all known to work properly.

I'm not using audio cable for data, I'm using the DMX input on the pack rather than the MicroPlex input, and the DMX line is terminated. I have tried it both by its self and at the end of a daisy-chain of 4 Selador Vivid-Rs. Same issue every time, regardless of how I configure it.

Any help or suggestions are appreciated.
 
Here's my situation, I have a Leviton D4DMX dimmer pack. It seems to work fine on Leviton controllers, but when used with ETC consoles, channels will randomly jump to full or off for a split second. There seems to be no rhyme or reason behind when the flickering will occur or on what channel. I have tested it with a MicroVision FX, an Insight 2 (on both universes) and on a Zero88 FatFrog. I tried adjusting the DMX output speed on the Insight 2 from max to slow, and it did not seem to have an effect on the flickering at all. The MicroVision, Insight and FatFrog are all known to work properly.

I'm not using audio cable for data, I'm using the DMX input on the pack rather than the MicroPlex input, and the DMX line is terminated. I have tried it both by its self and at the end of a daisy-chain of 4 Selador Vivid-Rs. Same issue every time, regardless of how I configure it.

Any help or suggestions are appreciated.

When you say the lights are flickering -- do you have zero control over the dimmers in the pack, or is there control with random flickering?

Do the Seladors work in line, and then the dimmer packs fail?

You mention that it's not working with ETC consoles -- it's also not working with the FatFrog, right?
 
Here's my situation, I have a Leviton D4DMX dimmer pack. It seems to work fine on Leviton controllers, but when used with ETC consoles, channels will randomly jump to full or off for a split second. There seems to be no rhyme or reason behind when the flickering will occur or on what channel. I have tested it with a MicroVision FX, an Insight 2 (on both universes) and on a Zero88 FatFrog. I tried adjusting the DMX output speed on the Insight 2 from max to slow, and it did not seem to have an effect on the flickering at all. The MicroVision, Insight and FatFrog are all known to work properly.

I'm not using audio cable for data, I'm using the DMX input on the pack rather than the MicroPlex input, and the DMX line is terminated. I have tried it both by its self and at the end of a daisy-chain of 4 Selador Vivid-Rs. Same issue every time, regardless of how I configure it.

Any help or suggestions are appreciated.

I would suggest trying to adjust the amount of channels in the DMX packet, if you are not sending all 512 channels, try increasing to 512. If the pack is within the two year warranty period, we could arrange for it to be evaluated by our repair department.

Leviton Technical Support can be reached at [email protected] or 800-959-6004.
 
When you say the lights are flickering -- do you have zero control over the dimmers in the pack, or is there control with random flickering?

Do the Seladors work in line, and then the dimmer packs fail?

You mention that it's not working with ETC consoles -- it's also not working with the FatFrog, right?


To clarify, I have complete control, but at random channels will drop to zero or jump to full for a fraction of a second.

The Seladors work perfectly before the dimmer pack, which then suffers the same problems as it does on its own.

It also does not work with the FatFrog, yes. My primary goal is to get it to work with the MicroVision and Insight, though.
 
To clarify, I have complete control, but at random channels will drop to zero or jump to full for a fraction of a second.

The Seladors work perfectly before the dimmer pack, which then suffers the same problems as it does on its own.

It also does not work with the FatFrog, yes. My primary goal is to get it to work with the MicroVision and Insight, though.

Tayklor,

I just wanted to check in with you about the problems you were having -- as Titanium mentions, this could be a DMX packet problem, but I'd be curious to know the final result or if the CB community could help you more.

Hans
 
Tayklor,

I just wanted to check in with you about the problems you were having -- as Titanium mentions, this could be a DMX packet problem, but I'd be curious to know the final result or if the CB community could help you more.

Hans

I tried changing the dimmer count in the MicroVision FX to 512, outputting full packets. I even set the addresses that were not connected to an actual dimmer to 35% to be sure there was an entire universe of data per packet. This was to no avail. The Insight 2 is not able to output 512 addresses on the second universe as far as I am aware, so I can't speak for it. It's being used for another show at the moment as anyway, so I don't have access to it.

Thanks all.
 
I tried changing the dimmer count in the MicroVision FX to 512, outputting full packets. I even set the addresses that were not connected to an actual dimmer to 35% to be sure there was an entire universe of data per packet. This was to no avail. The Insight 2 is not able to output 512 addresses on the second universe as far as I am aware, so I can't speak for it. It's being used for another show at the moment as anyway, so I don't have access to it.

Thanks all.
I can't speak for all software releases for Insight 2, but mine can have any number of channels on any of the three outputs. The norm is to have all channels between 1 and 512 on all three outputs. The other big choice is to have 1-512 on output 1 and 513-1024 on output 2 and 1025-1536 on output 3.

Tom Johnson
Florida's Most Honored Community Theatre
 
Your profile says you are in Madison WI; is that correct? What venue are you working in? I am in the Madison area and might be able to stop by to help you troubleshoot (if you haven't already received a similar offer).

Best,
John
 
Hello,

I am having similar problems but I have started to narrow the issue down.
To give a quick description I have:
An ETC ION board
about 20 D4dmx leviton packs
all actual DMX cables (and terminated)
and an EDI 96ch dimmer rack (although that isnt part of the equation)

After Many Many hours of fiddling I finally determined when the flickering happens:
When I have about 4 Leviton packs with 4x lights (S4 575w) each all at about 28% intensity
AND all 4 packs are on the SAME phase.

So my temp solution has been to limit 16 lights to each phase (100 amp legs) and the lights stopped flickering and Jumping

My question to the Guru's is "If I use a power conditioner on each leviton pack do you think that would help clean the signal?"
-if so which conditions? As I have read there really is no standard for the term "power conditioners"

Added info: lights on the same phase in the EDI dimmer rack DO NOT flicker, even when the leviton packs do.

I guess that's why the leviton d4 packs are not that expensive, there must be some sort of power conditioner in the EDI Rack that the leviton packs dont have.
 
28 percent is a key number for three phase power, as it cleanly misses any helpful offset from other phase legs and is near peak for producing triplen harmonics. Still, you indicated that all the packs are on the same phase. The problem sure sounds like the zero voltage cross detectors in the packs are being thrown off by the chop generated by other channels / packs. Power conditioners may actually make the problem worse since the filter in the conditioners will allow for even a greater dip in output voltage as the phase chop of the dimmer kicks in. A soft power source may be the problem. The only way to confirm that would be to put a scope on the power source while the packs are misbehaving. This is NOT something I would recommend as you expose yourself to hazardous conditions in the process. How long are the power cable runs to the dimmer packs? Shortening the run or using a heavier gauge cable may help. The runs from the dimmers to the lights are not much of a factor.

As for the EDI, I assume it is direct wired and therefore has a nice solid power source. Also, such a dimmer rack tends to be a whole other class of dimmers as compared to the "shoebox" style. I don't think it is a case of power conditioning as much as a zero-cross-detector that has a better design and is less able to be thrown by line noise.
 
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hmmmmm, thank you for that. The run is not that long for the power to the packs, I would say something like 40' from the panel box, and I made sure each outlet the packs are plugged into has a separate Hot/neutral/ground 12ga back to the panel box.

The other odd thing was before I ran out of the panel box, I went non dim out of the EDI rack to the Leviton packs and there was still the same issue.

I am going to do more research on the zero-cross-detectors, but I don't suppose there is an external line thru solution to fix that? or maybe something that can reverse the phase like on a sound board...
 
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28 percent is a key number for three phase power, as it cleanly misses any helpful offset from other phase legs and is near peak for producing triplen harmonics. Still, you indicated that all the packs are on the same phase. The problem sure sounds like the zero voltage cross detectors in the packs are being thrown off by the chop generated by other channels / packs. Power conditioners may actually make the problem worse since the filter in the conditioners will allow for even a greater dip in output voltage as the phase chop of the dimmer kicks in. A soft power source may be the problem. The only way to confirm that would be to put a scope on the power source while the packs are misbehaving. This is NOT something I would recommend as you expose yourself to hazardous conditions in the process. How long are the power cable runs to the dimmer packs? Shortening the run or using a heavier gauge cable may help. The runs from the dimmers to the lights are not much of a factor.

As for the EDI, I assume it is direct wired and therefore has a nice solid power source. Also, such a dimmer rack tends to be a whole other class of dimmers as compared to the "shoebox" style. I don't think it is a case of power conditioning as much as a zero-cross-detector that has a better design and is less able to be thrown by line noise.

I agree. There really are only two solutions to this.

1. Get a bigger feed up to the packs, or take the packs closer to a larger feed [at least for testing]. You want to get as much available current to those packs as possible. A long run of 12AWG or 14AWG is not your friend so get a 60A [for example] feed close and then break it down to the current level [likely 20A] that the pack is rated four.
2. Buy packs that are designed to handle zero-crossing disturbances.

If you can get a scope on the feed [please be careful as this is tricky and potentially dangerous if you do not know how to do this], a pic from the scope screen can tell us very quickly if ZX disturbances are the problem. If so, you are back to either of the solutions above.

As more people go to distributed power systems, it will be important for the electronics of portable dimmers and LED fixtures to be able to handle this specific power issue. Larger dimmer racks typically do not have this issue due to better software and larger available currents.

David
 
To clarify, I have complete control, but at random channels will drop to zero or jump to full for a fraction of a second.

The Seladors work perfectly before the dimmer pack, which then suffers the same problems as it does on its own.

It also does not work with the FatFrog, yes. My primary goal is to get it to work with the MicroVision and Insight, though.

I know I'm bumping an old thread here - but I am having exactly this problem with exactly these dimmer packs.

Setup was basic, Leprecon LP612 console running to 2 Leprecon dimmer packs and then to the Leviton pack. Lights on the Leviton pack (not the others) would randomly jump to 0 or full (while otherwise behaving normally).

Swapped out the Leviton pack for another identical one, same problem. Swapped it out for a (ironically older, cheaper and more beat-up) LSC DP-DMX-20L pack, and, problem solved.

I'm hoping it was just bad power or interference of some kind in the space we were in (a converted ancient storefront).
 
So I have spent a lot of time playing around with this issue.

Depending on your theatre's transformer I found that I can only put about (10x) ~600w units PER PHASE using the Leviton packs, in any configuration. This is without the packs acting funny when a majority of them reach 28%, which happens often during cross fades.

There is nothing wrong with your packs... they are just cheap... which is fine but you have to learn their limitation. Move the boxes to different outlets (on different phases) to spread out the power drain. I have tried all sorts of power conditioners and work around and converters and nothing worked.

I outfitted my theatre with about 12 of these boxes, and spent a lot of time ensuring there was only 4 boxes per phase and I only used 3 out of the 4 dimmer channels and my life was suddenly 1000% better.
 
Thanks for the reply. These packs are new to me, in good condition, and cost more than my old LSC ones, so I was just surprised that they would have an issue like this when the LSC ones don't. We were running our main 575W S4's and S4 Pars on the Leprecon packs, the Leviton was just for some practicals with 60w bulbs.

I have no idea what the power situation in that venue was, we were just told by someone which outlets were on which circuits. I'm going to go ahead and assume that the power was to blame for this one.
 
I have 8 D4DMX's and when I use all DMX cabling and terminate I'm fine... but I avoid practicals less that 100 watts because I recall reading somewhere that 60 watts is not a sufficient load for smooth operation.
 
but I avoid practicals less that 100 watts because I recall reading somewhere that 60 watts is not a sufficient load for smooth operation.
This is correct and often overlooked. The firing circuit that triggers the SSR (Triac, SCR, whatever) requires enough voltage to be across the device to actually gate it. This requires there to be sufficient load on the pack. Usually, the rule of thumb is 50 watts or more, and it is not related to the rating of the pack ( 500w / 1.2kw, 2.4kw. ) There are some newer packs where you can get away with a lot less. I have a couple of shoeboxes that appear happy over 7 watts. Also, there are a number of devices you can plug into the pack (link needed) that allow you to run very low wattage loads such as LED rope lights.
 

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