Midas M32 vs Crest X8 HS 32

[CanYouHearMeNow]

I am just curious what everyones opinion is between these 2 desks. My organization currently owns the Crest and I am trying to pitch the idea of getting the M32, mostly for the much more compact and lightweight package, and the digital expandability and built in processing. The Crest rarely gets used, but there are times when we would need more then the 16 channels we can get with our other equipment.

So which do you all prefer??

 

[avkid]

We have 6 large frame analog consoles sitting around. (half are Crest)
The three X32s go out all the time, an M32 is coming next week.

 

[Footer]

The fact that the Crest even still runs is pretty amazing. Our crest monitor X was thrown in the grave yard years ago. There is nothing wrong the the M32 (or X32). Do it if you want a digital console under 10k.

The big question when switching from analog to digital is how much outboard do you own? Does all the channels on the console still work? Does the desk sound clean?

It is to the point where putting ANY money into analog is pretty pointless. Most people would rather have a digital console that totally works vs an analog rig with issues.

 

[CanYouHearMeNow]

The fact that the Crest even still runs is pretty amazing. Our crest monitor X was thrown in the grave yard years ago. There is nothing wrong the the M32 (or X32). Do it if you want a digital console under 10k.

The big question when switching from analog to digital is how much outboard do you own? Does all the channels on the console still work? Does the desk sound clean?

It is to the point where putting ANY money into analog is pretty pointless. Most people would rather have a digital console that totally works vs an analog rig with issues.

Thats where are big issues are. Over the many number of years we have had the board, it has gotten used less and less. The X8 itself sounds fine and works. But as you said, the big question is about outboard gear, and that is an extremely limited amount. So little that we have to rent gear for almost every event we would use it for. Or we do not get the outboard gear and it is a headache because we don't have the utilities we are used to on our multiple LS9-16's.

We are also limited for storage space and that board takes a hefty chunk of real estate.

 

[Footer]

Thats where are big issues are. Over the many number of years we have had the board, it has gotten used less and less. The X8 itself sounds fine and works. But as you said, the big question is about outboard gear, and that is an extremely limited amount. So little that we have to rent gear for almost every event we would use it for. Or we do not get the outboard gear and it is a headache because we don't have the utilities we are used to on our multiple LS9-16's.

We are also limited for storage space and that board takes a hefty chunk of real estate.

Then you answered your own question... buy the M32 or the X32.

 

[themuzicman]

I have worked with enough former Crest QC engineers to know that the moment your crest breaks you are SOL. Crest is a shell of what it once was, and you will be sorry when a. your current Crest starts to break and you need it services and b. if you decide to buy a new one.

 

[CanYouHearMeNow]

Then you answered your own question... buy the M32 or the X32.

That is what I have been saying for about 2 years now. We struggle more to make the Crest work well then if we just had almost any digital option, especially for concerts. I just wanted to see what everyone else thinks about my choices.

 

[FMEng]

I use and like the X32 a lot, and it is hard to imagine more capability for the $. The M32 is basically the same console with a fancier chassis, improved motorized faders, and slightly better mic preamps. They are both brilliant designs.

Analog consoles still have some advantages, but I'd think twice about ever buying a used one. The problem is that audio goes through every pot and switch, and each control only has so many operation cycles (or lack of use) and exposure to the environment before the audio starts to deteriorate. I've spent too much of my life maintaining analog equipment not to fall in love with digital, with its fewer problems. The catch is a digital console with a problem is likely to be totally dead. An analog console might lose a buss or an input channel, but seldom fails completely.

Plus, the older I get, the less I like lugging big consoles, racks of outboard equipment, and bulky, heavy snake cables. A digital console and a stage box or two is a small, complete, self contained package. An installed console that stays put could lead me to a different choice.

One caution: If you use stage boxes with an X32 or M32, use only ruggedized, shielded, ethercon, cat5 cable, and budget for its significant cost. A low budget cable will come back to bite with loss of sync and nasty noises.

 

[CanYouHearMeNow]

I use and like the X32 a lot, and it is hard to imagine more capability for the $. The M32 is basically the same console with a fancier chassis, improved motorized faders, and slightly better mic preamps. They are both brilliant designs.

Analog consoles still have some advantages, but I'd think twice about ever buying a used one. The problem is that audio goes through every pot and switch, and each control only has so many operation cycles (or lack of use) and exposure to the environment before the audio starts to deteriorate. I've spent too much of my life maintaining analog equipment not to fall in love with digital, with its fewer problems. The catch is a digital console with a problem is likely to be totally dead. An analog console might lose a buss or an input channel, but seldom fails completely.

Plus, the older I get, the less I like lugging big consoles, racks of outboard equipment, and bulky, heavy snake cables. A digital console and a stage box or two is a small, complete, self contained package. An installed console that stays put could lead me to a different choice.

One caution: If you use stage boxes with an X32 or M32, use only ruggedized, shielded, ethercon, cat5 cable, and budget for its significant cost. A low budget cable will come back to bite with loss of sync and nasty noises.

Are there really issues with using unshielded Cat cables? Because with the signal being digital, it theoretically shouldn't add to the noise and whatnot. Right?

I prefer the M32 over the X32 because of the fader issues that I have seen for the X32's especially when they get abused at the bar scene.

 

[FMEng]

Are there really issues with using unshielded Cat cables? Because with the signal being digital, it theoretically shouldn't add to the noise and whatnot. Right?

I prefer the M32 over the X32 because of the fader issues that I have seen for the X32's especially when they get abused at the bar scene.

Loss of sync can be caused by induction of static electricity or crosstalk from mechanical disturbance of the spacing relationship of the conductors inside the cable. This has been well tested and documented, and Behringer revised their recommendation for cables accordingly. It manifests itself as a short burst of noise when the cable is stepped on, dragged around a corner, kinked, wheels rolled across, etc. If it happens when the speakers are powered, it could damaged drivers or hearing. It takes a fair amount of mechanical abuse of the cable to cause a problem, but static discharge is rather hard to predict or prevent. The Neutrik Ethercon connector is integral to the solution because it shunts a static discharge to the outside chassis and away from sensitive circuitry. The ethercon connector and cable shield work together.

This isn't really a Behringer/Midas problem, as much as it is a Base-T ethernet problem. Base-T was designed for computers and they have the luxury of getting corrupted packets resent, and it happens transparently. Audio doesn't get a second chance. Audio simply can't have that kind of error correction because it would introduce intolerable latency and reduce channel throughput. Use a decent quality cable, and the system is very robust.

 

[CanYouHearMeNow]

Very true. For any exposed ethernet runs, that makes much more sense. I usually think of most ethernet runs as being permanent runs that are less susceptible to traffic damage.

While on that topic, if an ethernet run was shielded from, for example, console to a wall jack dedicated for snake use, the jack in the wall would have to be shielded to see any benefit of the shield since most in wall Cat5 runs are unshielded. So in that sense nothing useful would come about by using shielded? Am I correct in this statement?

Interesting topic none the less.

 

[FMEng]

Very true. For any exposed ethernet runs, that makes much more sense. I usually think of most ethernet runs as being permanent runs that are less susceptible to traffic damage.

While on that topic, if an ethernet run was shielded from, for example, console to a wall jack dedicated for snake use, the jack in the wall would have to be shielded to see any benefit of the shield since most in wall Cat5 runs are unshielded. So in that sense nothing useful would come about by using shielded? Am I correct in this statement?

Interesting topic none the less.

The shield doesn't have to be continuous to provide benefit. If the cable from the equipment to the wall jack is shielded, it would be less susceptible to static discharge than an unshielded cable. It still has a "drain" on one end.

 

[CanYouHearMeNow]

The shield doesn't have to be continuous to provide benefit. If the cable from the equipment to the wall jack is shielded, it would be less susceptible to static discharge than an unshielded cable. It still has a "drain" on one end.

Gotcha. That does make sense. My Friday afternoon brain wasn't thinking things through.

 

[Max Warasila]

Over at the SoundForums we have debated the above topics relentlessly. It's definitely worth the STP, ProCo/Racpco/Horizon makes them, you just have to call or talk to your dealer about it. The X32 and M32 are both good desks, and are recognized as rider acceptable desks most of the time now. It is definitely worth the purchase as it will get rented out all the time and there are enough of them out in the wild now that you can easily cross rent or find a replacement if yours fails.

 

[TimmyP1955]

There are Ethercon pass-through connectors that can be wall mounted, to keep the shield contiguous.