Oklahoma! Gunshot plate smash

[Kryzm]

So my company is doing Oklahoma!, and I've never done the show before, but the director wants somebody to fire a gun indoors and break a dinner plate. The idea I've been playing with so far is to have a mousetrap on the shelf behind the plate, the plate secured to the shelf on top and bottom. The mousetrap would be triggered from behind the wall, via string attached to the trigger. The only thing I'm having trouble with is how to get the mousetrap arm best to reach the plate. Has anybody ever used this effect before? Otherwise, is there a better way? Googling it hasn't helped yet, so I'm at a loss. Thanks in advance for your help!

Chris

 

[MPowers]

Over the last 50 years, I've done a plate break gag more times than I can count, in more ways than I can remember. Mouse traps (or rat traps, better - stronger spring) rod pushed through the wall by a stage hand, solenoid activated by push button, sound activated relay, pneumatic piston with an air valve or relay, etc. ad infinitum.

The main thing I have learned is that the simplest solution is usually the best solution in any given situation. KISS rule of engineering.

Now, I've also done Oklahoma at least a dozen times, and I don't remember a gunshot plate break anywhere. Does the director want it in the smokehouse with Curly and Jud? During "Kansas City", maybe "The farmer and the Cowman", maybe Curly and Jud's fight at the end????

Where is the plate when it beaks? You said on a plate shelf on the wall, is the wall solid, hard framed or a soft cover flat or open frame style or.....?

Also, give me an idea of your budget, time line and a little info on the shop and who will build it.

Answer the questions and I will be glad to try and help you figure out a simple affordable way to work the gag.

 

[Kryzm]

The effect takes place in the smokehouse, instead of shooting out a knothole, curly shoots at a plate. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but our director is very particular. For last night (Tech rehearsal) I built a plate holder for the wall and drilled a hole in it, leaving about 1/4" through the wall (1/8 lauan). The plate holder is secured to a 1x4 frame and wire is bent over the plate to keep it in place. My answer originally was to build a mousetrap-like device with a bolt on the swinging arm ground down to a point. This didn't work, for our props manager saw fit to buy fired glazed ceramic plates, and the steel spike I made merely flattened. My fix last night was to just tap the back of the plate with a nail through the hole I'd drilled. That didn't work efficiently either. My goal today is to find bisqueware somewhere in the area, and replace the nail with a tungsten carbide scriber.
Budget is low, for I'm working at summer stock show-in-a-week, and we've already spent a good deal of our budget. Dress rehearsal is tonight and opening is Tuesday. I would be the one building it, and I have a good deal of experience with all sorts of improbable special effects (at budget). As you said, simple is definitely the way to go. This really isn't an effect that needs a lot of money spent on it, for being show-in-a-week, it will only be onstage six times.
Thanks for your help.

 

[shiben]

I dont think you actually want to break heavy plates on stage... Instead, go outside, break one, and then glue it back together with something that will not hold very well. Try hitting that with whatever you want.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

I echo what shiben said, you want to be very careful when breaking any type of ceramic, for it can leave edges and shards just as sharp as glass. Pre-breaking with glue spots is preferred, or breakaway dishes if you have the budget.

 

[Kryzm]

Thank you all for the suggestions. I ended up attempting to throw a plate against a tree out of frustration (and a need to prove myself more advanced than platekind), only to have it ricochet off a tree (thrown 20') onto a rock (15' down) and not even chip. I tried a spring loaded center punch, but that only did exactly what a center punch is made for: it made a pilot hole. Right now, I'm waiting for a plaster plate to dry. We're just going to use cheap plaster homemade plates.
Will update after testing/dress.

 

[Van]

I think your idea of using Greenware is what you should go with. A hard fired plate will not do what you want without a lot of point force. I've always had good luck with the Rat trap and pin configuration.

 

[Les]

I think your idea of using Greenware is what you should go with. A hard fired plate will not do what you want without a lot of point force. I've always had good luck with the Rat trap and pin configuration.

Notice Van said 'greenware'. Greenware is probably best because it is clay that hasn't been fired yet (just dried). It is brittle, and can be painted (though it will soak up paint). Bisque ware is ceramic that his been fired once, and waiting for the glazing process so it can be fired again. Either one will be weaker than ceramic that has been glazed, as the medium gets stronger in each firing cycle. Greenware probably won't have that nice glass breaking sound (probably more of a 'thunk', but it also won't leave sharp edges). You'd probably want to use SFX anyway.

 

[Kryzm]

So I'm back to the drawing board. Greenware and Bisqueware are both out, since I can't find a place to get them in the area, and as I said, dress rehearsal is tonight. I'm going to attempt to break a plate and glue-drop it back together. Plaster was too soft, and the pin went right through it (to laughs from my coworkers). I think my best idea is to use a glass plate, painted white (I know glass it a ***** to paint). It would definitely be brittle enough, and sharp edges and whatnot won't be a problem. We have the cast blocked far enough from the set piece that they won't come into contact with the shatter area until after someone has had a chance to sweep.

 

[Van]

Hate, absolutely, the idea of broken glass on stage. Even a teeny tiny piece of glass can damage an eye, and when Glass shatters teeny tiny pieces can be flung 10's of feet. You're in Mass. there's got to be some crafty somebody who does clay work. Even some Hobby stores or craft stores like Michaels carry green-ware bowls and plates. Out of the two choices you listed I'd go for the glued together plate.

 

[zmb]

Glass will go everywhere and seems impossible to clean all of it up. A car in my household had a tree fall into the windshield, a couple years later when using the defroster, little bits of glass still will appear on the dash.

 

[Les]

You could also buy a slab of clay and make your own, though it will take practice. Maybe you can use a finished plate as a mold. Any high school or college art departments in your area? I'm sure they would donate some clay, and maybe some tips as well. It doesn't have to be as decorative as a real plate, really. Just a dried disc-o-clay will work--- painted to give the illusion of depth.

 

[kiwitechgirl]

I did a show last year where a character tried to juggle plates, dropped one on the floor and smashed it. We used regular dinner plates, but I pre-broke them (wrap in a cloth, hit really hard on a metal shelf corner) and hot glued them together. Even on a small stage with the audience close, you couldn't see the breaks and 9 times out of 10 it would smash when it was dropped. Oddly enough, I did find that if I re-glued the plate and used it more than once, it didn't break nearly as easily so we gave up on that and just used one plate per show.

 

[MPowers]

I suspected it was going to be the smokehouse scene, but, you never know. Knowing you are in one week stock, and small budget, You probably are out of time already, so this advice is probably for the next time you need to do this. Look at simple solenoids like
McMaster-Carr
NOTE: If you can do a DC circuit, the DC models have a far higher force for the $$$.
These have a great deal more force than a mouse trap and with the sound of gunfire, the "Snap" they make when activated is covered. Really simple circuit. One wire from solenoid to Neutral contact on a standard Edison plug. A second wire from the other contact on the solenoid to a NO momentary contact push button and to the line pole on the plug. ground goes to the body of the solenoid.

I would suggest using the "PULL" type of solenoid. Drill/poke a small hole, 1/8" more or less, through the plate. Pre break if desired. Test and trial to decide. push a 16p common nail through the hole, and attach a "pull wire" to the nail. The pull gives a more realistic break as the plate/glass etc. breaks in the direction that the bullet would travel.

I know this is a bit sketchy, I hope it helps.

 

[PriJ]

I have to come up with a similar design to shatter a plate or bottle on a shelf for my technical Porduction Class. The actor will point the gun at a plate and mime the action of the gun being fired. The shelf will be located on the downstage face of a hard covered stage flat. The plate rests vertically on the shelf. How did you go about doing it? I was thinking of using a squib but I don't know how safe or efficient it will be.