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Conventional Fixtures Par 38 lamps discontinued?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by BeastmasterMD, May 2, 2013.

  1. BeastmasterMD

    BeastmasterMD New Member

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    I called my light bulb supplier yesterday to order some 120W Par38 spot lamps. He informed me that these were being discontinued. I work mainly in the wedding industry and we use these on almost every job we do. Does anyone out there know anything about this ?
  2. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    Activate the [user]ship[/user] signal!
  3. StNic54

    StNic54 Active Member

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  4. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    Yea, the ban went through, but financing for enforcement didn't. They are out there. Just buy them up as you find them.
  5. RickR

    RickR Member

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    The newer units will be under 90W and use some cool tweaks on halogen technologies. But in the end they will work the same!!

    Do get used to asking for your bulbs by Lumens and Beam Angle rather than watts. Read the box on some you like to know what to ask for...
  6. sloop

    sloop Member

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    Picked up some LED replacements. nice, bright, much cooler temp and should last long enough to pay for themselves.
  7. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Mark from Osram/Sylvania is much better informed about industry lamp news short of him at times sending me an e-Mail which I thank him for. Sign up for the various GE/Philips/Osram/Ushio news and normally all get is GE web seminars on stuff I don't care about, Osram LED news which is interesting but normally I forward to our LED person, and nothing from Philips. AT work, I have a list of where I left off in upgrading my notes, an a stack of printed stuff to make into notes. If not busy and up to date on bad lamp inspection and checking them in and out of the compuer, I get to the stack and perhaps get back to where I left off in website notes. Not efficient in with baby that never wants to go to sleep, not like I spend my nights these days like 14 years ago in copying hard copy lamp books, printed info and web info into my lamp tables. Lucky as per last night I was able to start using the jigsaw by 10PM on a work project.

    Never got into the 120w versions, 250w and 90w was so far sufficient for needs - though I would understand the 150w replacement best at 120w. Can probably still find some form of them available with research in first I'm hearing of them gone.


    Stuff I run across and or know, but at this point I'm as per bat signal lamp in being dim and only waiting until the Grand Parents can take the kid for a weekend so as to work without baby monitor bat phone signal for me to come up for a rescue, and sleep, or just plain sleep a full plus night and into a day. Bat Signal lamp needs a changing as I am not as informed as I was in persay leading edge when the website started. Bat signal even if I check in, is getting dim in output on my part in ready for bed earlier and earlier and informed less and less these days. MSD Platinum 15R lamp... by now I would have memorized it's specifications even if not used much since bought... yea, no.
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  8. silicsound

    silicsound Member

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    I hear that you might be able to still buy high wattage par 38's at pool supply stores. As they are exempt from the ban, because they are used for special purposes.
  9. shiben

    shiben Well-Known Member

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    Everyone I know uses watts and beam angle to describe them. Never heard anyone request any sort of lamp by lumens on any job I have been on or on the phone with a vendor. A 120W PAR 38 Spot is all I have ever heard. And I work with some fairly large companies, so its not like im just in a hole in the ground...
  10. RickR

    RickR Member

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    I'm not suggesting that anyone is living like a hobbit. Being in the business may actually be protecting you from what's happening as everyone knows what you're talking about and are slow to risk big money on new technologies. However you may be buying 90W lamps because that's what does the job. I've seen them advertised as 120W replacements; that are replacements for 150W.

    Efficiency means getting more for the same watts, or the same for less watts. So what do you call a lamp that works like the old standby but uses half or 1/10th the power?

    Retail light bulb packages now come with the lumens, by law. Lots of tricks have been played with long life and "replacement" lamps until the consumer protection folks stepped in. It only gets worse with CFL and LEDs. Lumens are the only workable replacement. Check out www.lightingfacts.com for info on labeling of LED "bulbs."

    silicsound FWIW: the incandescent bans don't touch 200W and larger lamps.
  11. Les

    Les Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Too bad about the lumens thing. I'm sure we'll all get used to it eventually, but lumens are such a small unit of measurement - it can be a little difficult to visualize at first. Maybe they should have "kilolumens" ;)
  12. techieman33

    techieman33 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but most household lamps are under 1000 lumens. And in this industry we're just going to keep asking for what we need by lamp code. There is no need for me to say get me a 27000 lumen, 300 hour, G9.5 base lamp when all I have to do is say get me an FEL.
  13. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I switched over to 90w halogen spots and floods years ago and wouldn't consider going back to incandescent. Simply a better light source IMHO.
  14. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    When I was doing weddings and tent events with PAR38's, we rarely, if ever touched the 120 watt stock. The 90's always worked fine. Often we were lamping down to 45 watt.
  15. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Think you are misunderstanding a few deatails. First, 90w halogen PAR 38 lamps have been on the market for years now, possibly longer than the 120w version. Before the 120v was the really really terrible "Watts Mizer" lamps in being 85w and listed as comperable to 100w and also a 120w version - both were incandescent still and bad ideas from GE at the time possibly amongst others that are confusing the issue. 90w Halogen lamps have nothing to do with a 150w incandescent PAR 38 lamp in history - they are not a replacement for anything - they are their own animal. Where are you shopping or getting this mis-informaion from? If wished I can post a copy of my not up to date table listing every PAR 38 lamp between 250w and 45w in pages and pages worth of ten year old info that goes back to the 80's in hand typed info about each lamp I knew of.

    If a 120w PAR 38 halogen is discontinued I have my doubts about, there is 100w and other suppliers in general. Otherwise in general, the PAR 38 lamp isn't the best lamp in the world.

    Yes a lot of retailers just list lumens out of a focused lamp... CBCP or CP with beam spread is much more useful.

    Second, talking Lumens from any PAR lamp is a sort of figure of comparison brand to brand but basically useless information given you are not using 360 degrees of the light off the filament - you are usng Center Beam Candlepower and this will be very specific to beam spread as to candlepower.

    Third, sorry if I live in an insulated world. Yea.. I grew up with 150w PAR 38 lamps in a poor store front theater that converted pinspot fixtures to PAR 38 fixtures on their own. Could never figure out who was hot gluing the lamps to the fixture in really stuck lamps to replace. Finally I figured out - once the single off center screw retaining the plastic lamp sockets to the can stopped getting loose on their own problem, that the plastic itself was melting and gluing lamp to fixture. Who knew as I was a set desiner by study... Long time to figure out and for the most part all in stock to fill light with in a small space once the good stuff like inkies were used up. (Kind of a shame I never found one again to show in my museum - even if I upgraded to porcelain at least over the years of working with such pinspot fixtures made into PAR 38's.

    Inspite of having to use them - it's a crappy not round or oval and sort of harsh beam, I still made magic. I never loved the lamp just got used to what I could do with it as only more light on the subject as opposed to no light on the subject. Also used them at times working free lance for cans say for up or down lighting say drapes at weddings etc. while working at such a company. It's just a wash light and often full wattage would set the drape on fire anyway or at least make the room too bright. About the time the lamps went out of the industry, yes I had moved on and was at a company that was doing large shows at 250w PAR 38 in places or small shows at 90w PAR 38 already in these days neiter gets used much. Sorry about inheriting the lamp buyer position in working my way up to it and insulated.

    Fourth, while I don't use 120w halogen PAR lamps for shows, I do use them for my dock lights in past attempts to convert to HMI, Flourescent and LED have not proven acceptable given often late nights in loading show trucks. I abslutely know for sure I can get them from Ushio in only a few months ago having re-stocked them. Are we sure that the 120w Halogen lamp is discontinued?

    Beyond that, I'm sitting on just short of two full brand new cases of never used 150w incandescent PAR 38 incandescent lamps, and I can fied more in the spot and flood if used. Send me a PM if you want them for what they cost like 20 years ago in that I would love to free up shelf space. Sorry if hard in statements but I did just remember the dock lights and am fairly certain they are still available in general. That plus the mis-information presented as important info about the lamp in lumens an old scale of measurement about them and fairly useless for actual output used.

    A GE 150PAR38/FL should be about 4,200CP when listed for that. No beam spread is listed but it should be within 36 and 30 degree based on other lamps when they also started listing that info. Dependant on brand and listing, the halogen 120w flood was well within that output plus would have a higher color temperature in seeming brighter. There has been some 100w halogen especially the GE version of the HIR lamps that would even get up to 6,300CP. And the normal 90w lamps in similar beam spread has as much candlepower as or more than the 150w incandecent - plus the better color temperature. Wide range of what 120w can do in basically a replacement, similar or more output - lots of lamps to consider that might or might not be available.
    Last edited: May 8, 2013
  16. RickR

    RickR Member

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    Sorry if I seem to have lost some details. I haven't gone to the archives to date the changes.

    Most of my lamp knowledge comes from the IES, lamp manufacturers, DOE, Lighting Research Center, keeping tabs on the big movers and shakers. As well as over 30 years of lighting both theatrically and architecturally. I've also been LC for over 15 years.

    1. To the best of my memory I first saw 120W lamps as GE "Watt Miser" back in the 80's when I started selling bulbs to make ends meet. They were advertised as direct 150W retrofits. Halogen pars came along soon after and were wonderful. Yeah 120s have been around a while. What's "best"? I wouldn't dream of trying to answer that!

    2. Lumens is a complete measurement of output and most closely follows what people mean when the talk about watts. CBCP is more practical in many cases but not all. Personal preferences and the job at hand count for a lot. Having a number printed on the package can be very useful. :)

    3. The world is a big place, we all live in our own bubbles.
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  17. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Sorry if a more harsh reply than I will have intended, Hopefully all is good now in getting what you were looking for you got pointed to? I also remember the Watt Miser and thoutht what was the world coming to back than. In part that's why these days, I'm not worried about what is taken off the market - know there is a better replacement for it already.

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