Does anyone know if there is a way to dim installed lighting such as chandeliers and sconces with portable dimmers that meets code? I was thinking of wiring the lights to a wall mounted inlet of some sort that could be plugged into a small dimmer with a short cable. I've looked through the NEC, but I'm still unclear on whether this is legal.
Portable Dimmer with Sconces and Chandeliers
- Thread starterrroten
- Start date
JD
Well-Known Member
The thing that comes to mind is the 30 day rule of using portable cable such as extension cables. Anything that is permanent they would want hard wired. If you hard wire a portable dimmer you will probably be voiding its safety rating. Most all portable dimmers do not have an application rating for use in a permanent application.
Morte615
Active Member
As I read it he wants a permanent fixture that can be re-routed to a temporary dimmer source. So the wire and dimmer would still be temporary, pretty much just for the performance, but when not in use would be removed. Also not sure if the fixture would remain and not be powered, or if looking for a way to switch from a permanent source to a temporary one as needed.
I don't know the code issues but I don't personally see a problem if the fixture was installed correctly and a rated connection point (is there one for this?) was installed. But again I don't know what the code would say. Interested to see what others come up with!
I don't know the code issues but I don't personally see a problem if the fixture was installed correctly and a rated connection point (is there one for this?) was installed. But again I don't know what the code would say. Interested to see what others come up with!
This is mostly correct. They will be permanent fixtures that will either be not powered, or connected to a portable dimmer. My issue with permanent dimmers is that they are a bit overkill for this application. I need less than 3000W total capacity. If there are permanent dimmers out there that are small enough for a reasonable price, I would consider those. The cheapest I could find is this NSI part: http://www.fullcompass.com/product/398148.html
Permanently installed devices cannot be power from temporary portable devices at the point of connection for the device/sconce/chandelier. I can hear my Master Electrician / Fire Marshal brother having a heart attack now. You would need to do some form of junction box between the devices and the main panel where fed from, install some form of architectural dimming device between the Junction box and the main panel.
If Sconces and chandeliers where part of a set, I'd say, put them on a edison plug and connect them to the portable dimmer, but putting house systems on a portable dimmer(s) gives me reasons for second thoughts on why it should not be done.
Maybe @STEVETERRY will chime in.
If Sconces and chandeliers where part of a set, I'd say, put them on a edison plug and connect them to the portable dimmer, but putting house systems on a portable dimmer(s) gives me reasons for second thoughts on why it should not be done.
Maybe @STEVETERRY will chime in.
Thanks for the thoughts. Just to clarify my idea... The fixtures would be wired permanently through conduit to a junction box. The junction box would then have some sort of properly rated inlet installed (Think something like the IEC inlets on most gear). I would then use a lead with edison plug on one end and whatever mates with the inlet on the other to connect lights to the dimmer. So technically, the lights are not permanently wired to the dimmer.
Ok. So according to 520.50:
520.50 Road Show Connection Panel (A Type of Patch Panel). A panel designed to allow for road show connection of portable stage switchboards to fixed lighting outlets by means of permanently installed supplementary circuits. The panel, supplementary circuits, and outlets shall comply with 520.50(A) through (D).
Lighting Outlet: An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder or luminaire.
Outlet: A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
So from these definitions, I am interpreting that it is ok to connect a portable dimmer to permanently installed fixtures given the connections comply with 520.50(A) though (D).
520.50 Road Show Connection Panel (A Type of Patch Panel). A panel designed to allow for road show connection of portable stage switchboards to fixed lighting outlets by means of permanently installed supplementary circuits. The panel, supplementary circuits, and outlets shall comply with 520.50(A) through (D).
Lighting Outlet: An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder or luminaire.
Outlet: A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
So from these definitions, I am interpreting that it is ok to connect a portable dimmer to permanently installed fixtures given the connections comply with 520.50(A) though (D).
You need to hire an electrician to do this work. It is not quite as simple as plugging a load into an outlet. The Dimmer pack will cost you several hundred. The sub panel and additional breakers another 300 or 400. Is it really worth it?
The below is just a suggestion on what you should show your electrician. I take no liability on the execution of this.
Mains Panel Ckt Bkr > Dimmer > Sub Panel > Sconces / Chandeliers
When you are done with this set up, you will need to go back to :
Mains Panel Ckt Breaker > Sub Panel > Sconces Chandelier
The below is just a suggestion on what you should show your electrician. I take no liability on the execution of this.
Mains Panel Ckt Bkr > Dimmer > Sub Panel > Sconces / Chandeliers
When you are done with this set up, you will need to go back to :
Mains Panel Ckt Breaker > Sub Panel > Sconces Chandelier
JChenault
Well-Known Member
i understand that there is a code requirement to put a circuit breaker in the described system. IE
Light --(wire in conduit)--> breaker --> pigtail/stage pin --> dimmer pack
What I don't understand is what safety problem the code is trying to address. Are the code writers worried that I might put in larger lamps in the circuit, and might retire the pigtail to a 50 amp receptacle? That seems unlikely. What am I missing?
Light --(wire in conduit)--> breaker --> pigtail/stage pin --> dimmer pack
What I don't understand is what safety problem the code is trying to address. Are the code writers worried that I might put in larger lamps in the circuit, and might retire the pigtail to a 50 amp receptacle? That seems unlikely. What am I missing?
Yes, the basic concern is that someone might supply the installed wiring with power that it is not rated for; all permanent wiring requires permanent overcurrent protection.
STEVETERRY
Well-Known Member
If you're going to connect the output of a portable dimmer pack to a permanent building circuit, you need supplementary overcurrent protection per 520.50. IMHO, it will probably be a lot cleaner and cheaper to install a permanent Listed dimmer wired directly to the branch circuit. This dimmer should have a DMX512 control input. As others have stated, this is a job for a licensed electrician, since there will need to be NEC coordination with the ampacity of the existing branch circuit wiring, the overcurrent protective device in the dimmer, and the size of the load. Some of your comments regarding the size of the dimmer are not clear--you need to get professional help on this project.
ST
Thanks for the response Steve. I am leaning heavily towards an install grade dimmer at this time (http://www.fullcompass.com/product/398148.html). There will be a licensed electrician on this install, I am just doing the legwork to select the equipment. I am an electrical engineer by trade, so I am not new to electrical loads, etc.
On the dimmer size topic, here is my needed loads:
Sconces: 500W max load (12 sconces, 40W max bulb each)
Chandeliers: 2400W absolute max (More likely 1500W. 4 Chandeliers, 24 bulbs each, 25W absolute max. We will almost certainly use 15W or 8W bulbs though.)
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