Replacements
- Thread starterWest light operator
- Start date
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
TheatreTeachre
Member
I'm a high school teacher and we replaced our Express with an Element. I've never used an Ion, so this is all hearsay, but my understanding is that if you intend to have students or lay people run your board, the Element is a safer choice. If it's professionals, then the Ion. I love our Element, and I've had no problem running six Selador Vivid-R LEDs, two DesignSpots, two Right Arms, and a handful of spinners on it. That being said, we still run mostly conventional and if we were to ever seriously switch over to more smart lighting, I'd start running out of space pretty quick.
Vega
Member
I spent the past year working at a high school (actually, the very one I attended!), and we replaced our Express with an Ion. The Ion's not a great busking desk, or at least the way we have ours set up (Ion + 2x10 fader wing), and that tends to make it tougher for less technical people to work with the board. If your students have time to go in and just play around with the Ion to get comfortable with it, it can be a fantastic desk for your program.
microstar
Well-Known Member
In my opinion the Leprecon LPC-48V and LPC-96V have been designed as replacements for the Express.
Many more modern features. Leprecon was actively soliciting input from people looking for Express replacements shortly after ETC discontinued the line and it looks like they've done a pretty good job of incorporating the wish lists. Not saying its better than an Element or Ion, but if you are looking for something uncomplicated for specific applications, this is probably it.
Many more modern features. Leprecon was actively soliciting input from people looking for Express replacements shortly after ETC discontinued the line and it looks like they've done a pretty good job of incorporating the wish lists. Not saying its better than an Element or Ion, but if you are looking for something uncomplicated for specific applications, this is probably it.
oneeyedpug
Member
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
I don't run boards every day like many of you but is operating an Ion that much different than operating an Element? I thought they were both the same syntax, but maybe the additional functions and features of the Ion makes it harder. I suggested the Ion stretch because it seems the hard encoders make programming automated fixtures a lot easier. Tell me if I'm wrong about that.
oneeyedpug
Member
Seconded - the command-line syntax is the same on both consoles. There are a couple of programming differences (i.e. Element doesn't allow multiple cue-lists, nor discrete channel timing), but for someone coming from an Express, those wouldn't be deal breakers. The built-in faders on the Element are nice for busking one-offs, and, like Microstar says, they make it easy to have a fader with a big label that says "STAGE LIGHT" or similar.
I programmed a couple of shows on an LPC in 2011 for the middle school I used to teach at. Perhaps the firmware has gotten smoothed out by now, but I find the way the LPC handles the editting frameworks (run vs. record mode, channel view versus cue view versus sub-view) to be pretty un-intuitive, particularly if you're coming right from an ETC world. Not a bad console at all, it's come a long way, I'd recommend an Element over the LPC.
I would much rather an ion, but just from working with younger students, it is easier to explain to them how things work, and what they are doing when using channel faders. I would much rather use the syntax and get rid of individual channel faders entirely when I use it myself, but inevitably, when a 12 year old goes at it for the first time, they will grab those faders and start programming. Sometimes they even prefer busking into a scene. Eventually they start picking up syntax, but they need an understanding first.
If it is being placed in a school, the staff might be consulted in advance to find out their goals- a lot of movers, ion - teaching the basics - element. Maybe an ion with a fader wing is the best of both worlds.
If it is being placed in a school, the staff might be consulted in advance to find out their goals- a lot of movers, ion - teaching the basics - element. Maybe an ion with a fader wing is the best of both worlds.
Amishplumber
Active Member
I would definitely say get an Element. Yes, the Ion is more powerful than the Element, but thats the idea. The Element has the basics, or elements (get it guys!? is funny joke!) down pat without getting you confused in all the advanced features. I got introduced to the Eos software simultaneously on an Element and an Ion at different venues. The first time I sat down at an Ion I was super scared about messing things up by accidentally hitting the wrong commands and therefore programmed very conservatively and slowly. The Element has fewer things you can screw up making it easier to just try things and find out what they do. I ended up getting the basics figured out on the Element which then gave me the confidence to try complicated things on the Ion.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Amishplumber, I'm glad you had the opportunity to learn to ride the Eos line with training wheels - or perhaps without super charger - but for many they will never have the chance to move onto a second level. Yes if a school is getting two consoles, I might consider one of each (more likely an Eos and an Ion -but that's another discussion), but I find schools the kind of place where the challenge of more is more likely to encourage than discourage. Also knowing this is it for at least ten years if not 15 or 20 - the public institution now or never mentality - I hate to limit them.
My usual console is a SmartFade ML, and my typical rig is 24 conventionals, 17 LED pars, and 2 profile movers. My SmartFade was out on a rental, and I had to cross-rent a desk for a show I was doing, and I got an Element.
I understand that my usage (busking with movers and LED wash fixtures) wasn't the target market of the Element, but OMG!!! WHAT A PAIN! I would have killed to have my SmartFade ML back. My whole day of programming was spent clicking to get to the right parameters, and then clicking to set them.
If you EVER see yourself getting into fixtures more complicated than dimming only, I strongly suggest something other than the Element. I'm told that the Congo would have been significantly better for what I wanted to do. I believe the Congo Kid is similar in format and price to the Element.
West light operator
Member
Thank you this is exactly what I was looking for, and out express just died so this is perfect timing!
Amiers
Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
Sad to hear she died. Another one bites the dust. I will back my show up in honor of yours
John Palmer
Well-Known Member
TJ,
First, let me say, I am biased toward the Cobalt operating system that runs on the Congo Kid.
The Congo Kid running Cobalt would give you an excellent busking desk. If you get a chance to demo the Cobalt 20, you will see a phenomenal busking lighting desk.
I have programmed on Eos, Ion, Cobalt(Congo). I will take the Cobalt for 95% of the shows. There are things that the Eos family do better than Cobalt, but I would hate to busk a show on an Ion.
Cobalt is a direct action syntax. It is made up of short action oriented commands. I think of it like marching. Left...Face. Red...Color.
The Eos is about speaking in sentences and being polite. I would like you to take out the trash, and sort your laundry, and clean up your room, and mow the lawn, and put out the trash cans before I get home from the store. ("Yeesh," under my breath, and then speaking loudly, "Okay, Mommmmmm!")
Remember, I did say I was biased. Does it show much?
Do you use the the SmartSoft software with your SmartFadeML? I haven't played with it, but I see a project in my future where I will probably be using a SmartFade, and I know I will want to use SmartSoft as well.
Take care,
John
First, let me say, I am biased toward the Cobalt operating system that runs on the Congo Kid.
The Congo Kid running Cobalt would give you an excellent busking desk. If you get a chance to demo the Cobalt 20, you will see a phenomenal busking lighting desk.
I have programmed on Eos, Ion, Cobalt(Congo). I will take the Cobalt for 95% of the shows. There are things that the Eos family do better than Cobalt, but I would hate to busk a show on an Ion.
Cobalt is a direct action syntax. It is made up of short action oriented commands. I think of it like marching. Left...Face. Red...Color.
The Eos is about speaking in sentences and being polite. I would like you to take out the trash, and sort your laundry, and clean up your room, and mow the lawn, and put out the trash cans before I get home from the store. ("Yeesh," under my breath, and then speaking loudly, "Okay, Mommmmmm!")
Remember, I did say I was biased. Does it show much?
Do you use the the SmartSoft software with your SmartFadeML? I haven't played with it, but I see a project in my future where I will probably be using a SmartFade, and I know I will want to use SmartSoft as well.
Take care,
John
Hi John. Thanks for your thoughts. I'm also investigating Hog and potentially the Strand Neo, as I don't have to fulfill riders.
I've gotten to be fairly proficient on the SmartFade ML. Having all parameters via fader is pretty fast, and you can quickly build scenes. The main area where I get tripped up is with record all vs record selected. It is a pain in the butt (or possibly I'm doing it wrong) to remove a device from a scene. I have had trouble where an intelligent device will get recorded even though intensity is zero so it doesn't show, because it was selected when I chose save selected.
Anyway, I do like SmartSoft, and use it when I need to edit a scene live, or do any sequence edits. During a show, I leave it on the Pages window so I can see my palette of scenes. If I'm doing a basic show with LEDs and conventionals I can live without it. When I add the movers, SmartSoft comes out.
I've gotten to be fairly proficient on the SmartFade ML. Having all parameters via fader is pretty fast, and you can quickly build scenes. The main area where I get tripped up is with record all vs record selected. It is a pain in the butt (or possibly I'm doing it wrong) to remove a device from a scene. I have had trouble where an intelligent device will get recorded even though intensity is zero so it doesn't show, because it was selected when I chose save selected.
Anyway, I do like SmartSoft, and use it when I need to edit a scene live, or do any sequence edits. During a show, I leave it on the Pages window so I can see my palette of scenes. If I'm doing a basic show with LEDs and conventionals I can live without it. When I add the movers, SmartSoft comes out.
John Palmer
Well-Known Member
TJ,
Thanks for input on the SmartSoft! It is always good to get real world feedback.
If you are looking at a new console, take a look at Cobalt. It does take a little getting used to the RPN programming syntax, but it is amazingly powerful. A used Congo Kid is for sale on USED LIGHTING right now. The draw back to the Kid is not having LCDs for fader content, and a limit on number of devices. Another thing with Cobalt is that you can get the Nomad dongle that will allow a computer to act as the lighting desk. So, if you have a show that you program but need to leave a console behind, you can leave a laptop with the Nomad dongle and take your console to the next show.
My Hog experience goes back to the HogII, so I never got my head wrapped around the changes in programming that came with the Hog3/4. I know people that love them.
I haven't tried out the Strand Neo. I missed the demos that they had in LA a couple of months ago.
If you have trouble setting up a demo of Cobalt, let me know, and I can try to shake the tree for you.
Take care,
John
Thanks for input on the SmartSoft! It is always good to get real world feedback.
If you are looking at a new console, take a look at Cobalt. It does take a little getting used to the RPN programming syntax, but it is amazingly powerful. A used Congo Kid is for sale on USED LIGHTING right now. The draw back to the Kid is not having LCDs for fader content, and a limit on number of devices. Another thing with Cobalt is that you can get the Nomad dongle that will allow a computer to act as the lighting desk. So, if you have a show that you program but need to leave a console behind, you can leave a laptop with the Nomad dongle and take your console to the next show.
My Hog experience goes back to the HogII, so I never got my head wrapped around the changes in programming that came with the Hog3/4. I know people that love them.
I haven't tried out the Strand Neo. I missed the demos that they had in LA a couple of months ago.
If you have trouble setting up a demo of Cobalt, let me know, and I can try to shake the tree for you.
Take care,
John
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