Simple Control of Movers - ETC Express

[Les]

So here's a situation I never wanted to face.

I know that we have discussed movers + ETC Express many times, but hopefully this question is a little different.

I'm possibly designing for The Wedding Singer at a Community Theatre next spring. The director has told me that he wants to use 'smart lights' (yeah...).

Knowing their budget and the amount of time I'll have to program the show, the likelihood of having an ML console and the amount of time for me to learn & program it is near zero.

What I'm thinking is, what if I wasn't so picky. How easy would it be to rent some fixtures with built-in effects and just fire a "go ahead and run 'X' pattern" from the Express? Would I be looking more in the DJ arena for fixtures? Is it even possible to do this sort of thing?

 

[lwinters630]

you would be better off renting an I board. with the Express you will have to load the profiles and hope the refresh rate is fast enough for the new "smart" lights.

 

[techieman33]

If there is a PC available you could always go the magic q route for mover control.

 

[Judge]

I would have a conversation about why he wants "smart lights"
My opinion is that unless "smart lights" are used intelligently then they just look stupid and annoying. Nobody is impressed with moving lights per se these days as they are on every single TV show that involves music. People are impressed however with nice sets and LX cues that make sense, so I would humbly suggest that unless its going to be done properly dont do it at all - spend the money elsewhere.
Good luck.

 

[StradivariusBone]

Lightfactory has a low-end version of their software that allows for like 128 dimmers and I want to say it's around $150 and it includes the DMX-USB dongle. If you've got a laptop you could run the movers off that since LF is quite handy at doing that. If you wanted to really get fancy I would imagine you could use MIDI to fire cues on LF from the Express (although I don't know if that low-end version of LF allows for MIDI in).

Otherwise I don't see why running the internal FX on the movers would be a huge deal. The profiles would have to be tweaked so you're not fading through the dimmer that controls all the macros.

I don't think it'd look like Vegas, but it would get the "smart lights" point across. Especially considering most "wedding singers" probably run the same crap that we're talking about. Make it a design choice. Just find like 10 rusty ADJ chrome pars...

 

[chslighttech]

Another cheap control solution that I know of is Martins M-PC. It will output a universe of DMX for free over an Enttec usb - dmx device. I believe the open DMX-USB is under 100 bucks and the software is free to download.

 

[jglodeklights]

So here's a situation I never wanted to face.

I know that we have discussed movers + ETC Express many times, but hopefully this question is a little different.

I'm possibly designing for The Wedding Singer at a Community Theatre next spring. The director has told me that he wants to use 'smart lights' (yeah...).

Knowing their budget and the amount of time I'll have to program the show, the likelihood of having an ML console and the amount of time for me to learn & program it is near zero.

What I'm thinking is, what if I wasn't so picky. How easy would it be to rent some fixtures with built-in effects and just fire a "go ahead and run 'X' pattern" from the Express? Would I be looking more in the DJ arena for fixtures? Is it even possible to do this sort of thing?

It is totally possible to do this sort of thing, although you may need to get a bit creative in how you address the fixtures and how you patch them to keep them within the number of channels your Express has as each parameter takes up one channel. You also will need to be willing to let the fixtures "design" their bit in the show since you won't be able to control the size and possibly the rate of the FX. What fixtures you can rent will depend upon what is available locally. Yes, you'll be looking primarily at DJ style fixtures as Theater, Tour and Concert quality fixtures usually forego internal FX and color macros as it is unlikely LD's are going to use them, and they waste address space.

LWinters, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the Express not being able to keep up with the refresh rate of the newest ML's. It can transmit at the maximum rate that is within DMX compliance.

 

[Amiers]

You could have the fixtures preset up in a programmed mode and just feed power with one channel how many ever seconds said fixture takes to home and start its Fx. Like others have said DJ fixture will be better and cheap to rent.

 

[Les]

Sorry I'm so late following up on this thread.

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I agree that unless intelligent lights are designed intelligently, they just end up looking tacky. In all honestly though, this show kind of asks for that disco look. I plan on supplementing any movers with standard ellipsoidals outfitted with breakup gobos for some beamage, and I also plan on bringing in two extra 1000Q followspots and using them from the FOH cove positions.

Back to moving lights, I will definitely explore my options. I like the MagicQ/Martin route, I'm just a little hesitant to throw a curve ball to the board op, who in my past experience usually requires spoon-feeding. I'll look in to linking the PC to the console - luckily I have a lot of time to figure this out. I'm OK with either programming some basic patterns or even allowing the lights to design themselves as long as I can control what type of program it runs and when. I may even look in to putting some LED movers on the apron. ADJ has the Inno series which might work well for that.

Failing that, I could just throw a few I-cue's, gobo rotators, scrollers, and Gam FilmFX in to the mix and that just might get me all that I need. That's actually sounding like a pretty good idea right about now...

 

[Chris Chapman]

you would be better off renting an I board. with the Express you will have to load the profiles and hope the refresh rate is fast enough for the new "smart" lights.

Puzzled on this comment. For basic cueing that the OP is going for, wouldn't launching a pre-programmed effect on Express work essentially the same as any other DMX Console? The Express may be old, but isn't the transmission rate on DMX a standard? Or is this one of those nasty problems with 16bit, 32bit and 64bit packets ?

 

[lwinters630]

Puzzled on this comment. For basic cueing that the OP is going for, wouldn't launching a pre-programmed effect on Express work essentially the same as any other DMX Console? The Express may be old, but isn't the transmission rate on DMX a standard? Or is this one of those nasty problems with 16bit, 32bit and 64bit packets ?

To help clarify my first post I ment to say "rent an ION board." As for the refresh rate for the DMX. I had trouble once but I now recall it was an Omega ii board that I added a signal doubler in line. That is like a comador 64 computer compared to a XP compuete

The OP had said programing time was very limited, so finding then adding a profile to express can take time. If they're not familiar with using the express with smart lights it will take longer, that's why I suggested the ION.

 

[Les]

Just a little update on this thread. I am definitely moving forward with the show. One fixture I am looking at is the Chauvet Intimidator FX 350. It's similar in concept to a Sharpy except it's an LED version. Looks like a pretty unique and innovative fixture actually - just need to find somewhere to rent them.

Looking at the manual, it has a 15-channel mode where channel 11 contains movement macros: 8 automatic and 8 sound active. So if I were to just patch these in (say 520-535) and tell the console [channel] [531] [at] [50] [enter]; that should call up a macro, correct? Of course the channel values are 0-255 per DMX spec, so I would have to figure out how to make that conversion... Man, it has been a while since I have run an Express.

I also picked up some VL500 80v's from a local eBay seller for like $150 each. Bought several, hoping to get four to work and I succeeded - so now I have 4 VL500 washes to work with. They obviously have no internal programs but doing color washes with them shouldn't be too difficult. They are also popular enough that I could probably find a personality for the Express if I wanted to do some simple movements. I am hoping to mount them on the deck, possibly in front of the band.

Oh, and the theatre has a strict "no haze" policy. Argh.

Chauvet Intimidator FX 350:
http://www.chauvetlighting.com/intimidator-fx-350.html

Chauvet Intimidator FX 350 Manual (PDF):
http://www.chauvetlighting.com/products/manuals/Intimidator_FX_350_UM_Rev1_WO.pdf
(DMX chart on pgs 11-14)

FWIW, here's a picture of the space, for which our very own @teqniqal was a consultant.
As you can see, the grid is clearly visible for 90% of the audience, so movers should be able to provide some good eye-candy.

 

[Amiers]

It is easier just to make your own personality for both fixtures.

Google express personality editor and get yourself a USB floppy drive from eBay and you are good to go.

 

[TheTheaterGeek]

So here's a situation I never wanted to face.

I know that we have discussed movers + ETC Express many times, but hopefully this question is a little different.

I agree completely, Especially because we have a congo available.

UGH!

How did this stuff work out?

 

[lwinters630]

It is easier just to make your own personality for both fixtures.

Google express personality editor and get yourself a USB floppy drive from eBay and you are good to go.

If you are still going with the express, down load the EOL (off line editor) and personality editor from ETCCONNECT (Grab the manuals as well). That way you can pre-patch the fixtures off line adding the personality to the disk. I use the fixture patching because I find it is easier to use them as fixtures rather than channels. I also create macros to grab groups of fixtures at the same time. Focus points will also help. And with off line you can label cues, Focal points, groups and subs. PS. copy the personality on the disk, then export the file to the floppy.

 

[Les]

I agree completely, Especially because we have a congo available.

UGH!

How did this stuff work out?

Jury is still out -- the show is in May. I do have some good ideas floating around though! I should probably demo the Chauvet fixtures I am intending on working with, though. Wanna make sure they will do -- and react -- the way I want them to.

If you are still going with the express, down load the EOL (off line editor) and personality editor from ETCCONNECT (Grab the manuals as well). That way you can pre-patch the fixtures off line adding the personality to the disk. I use the fixture patching because I find it is easier to use them as fixtures rather than channels. I also create macros to grab groups of fixtures at the same time. Focus points will also help. And with off line you can label cues, Focal points, groups and subs. PS. copy the personality on the disk, then export the file to the floppy.

Good idea. Still several months 'till the show, but I want to get started as soon as possible. I will probably settle with the Express. I thought about MIDI'ing it up to a computer to use something like MagicQ, but that introduces a needed investment and a potential point of failure on my part. I doubt the theater has a laptop free for me to use and I'm certainly not going to use mine (mostly liability in the event of a failure and the fact that I probably won't be there on a nightly basis).

I also need to confirm their model of Express. I believe it is a 250, driving 192 dimmers.

 

[lwinters630]

I think the express 250 you will run out of channels.

You mention programing time is limited and learning curve on Express, seriously, IMHO I'd check into renting an ION for $300. I actually patched the fixtures you mentioned in the (ION off line) in the time it took to read the post. Check out off line version here as well as quick start manuals.

It is so easy and you can pre program the show off line save to USB drive and upload your show. Mover effects are built in. Ps. Etc has a ton of youtube videos with visualizers. Check some out.

 

[Les]

I think the express 250 you will run out of channels.

You mention programing time is limited and learning curve on Express, seriously, IMHO I'd check into renting an ION for $300. I actually patched the fixtures you mentioned in the (ION off line) in the time it took to read the post. Check out off line version here as well as quick start manuals.

It is so easy and you can pre program the show off line save to USB drive and upload your show. Mover effects are built in. Ps. Etc has a ton of youtube videos with visualizers. Check some out.

I've been concerned about running out of channels as well. I thought about doing some creative addressing and pairing up the VL's so they mirror each other and possibly patching grid-hung ML's in two groups of four (or depending on how many I end up with), but that situation is far from ideal. I might just have to have a heart-to-heart with the director.

At least with a better console I wouldn't have to limit myself to harder-to-find (and possibly lower grade) ML's in search of built-in macros. We are worried about budget, but I could probably source 4-8 "basic" moving heads fairly quickly and easily.

The space really picked a bad time to replace their console. They went from a Colortran Status 24/48 so it was definitely a step up, but they did so at a time when the Express was on the verge of being discontinued. Of course, the Ion and Element weren't a blip on their radar at that point. They keep wanting to do things with intelligent lighting, and asking me how many "dimmers" they take up. It's fun.

 

[Les]

Any thoughts on slaving Chamsys MagicQ or ETC's Nomad dongle to the Express? The reason I ask is because there might be no budget left for console rental. I figure I could (theoretically) slave a PC console to the Express to do all the heavy lifting with movers and simply fire 'Go' cues from the Express. I have no idea how to set this all up, but I still have a few months to learn and decide.

I would consider the dongle a personal investment, and I have the VL500's here at home to help me learn the in's and out's of programming.

 

[Ford]

You can certainly do that (use the Express to fire another controller).
I did something similar for a production in Cornell's Flexible Theatre a few years ago.
Just be sure that your ML console has both DMX-in, and DMX-out connections. The old Martin Dongles did. The Enttec 2 universe can be configured that way. For the Chamsys, I think it depends on which dongle you use.

If you are stuck with a single console, need to save channels, and you are only doing ballyhoos (so don't need them to work independently)... you could arrange your movers symmetrically, address them all the same (or maybe with only 2 start addresses), and invert the Pan (or both Pan and Tilt, if you want a little more variety) on half of them.
This may not look fantastic, but it will save DMX channels...