Source 4 LED lens selection

[rphilip]

The university I work for is looking to make a purchase of about a dozen LED ellipsoidals, probably ETC Source 4 LED Series 2, we have a pair and really like them. I'm still trying to sort out what lenses to get with/for them. I go back and forth between getting all fixed lenses with some spares or getting all zoom lenses or some mix of the two.

We currently 16 Source 4's in our portable inventory: 6x 15-30 zooms; and a pair each of 10, 14, 19, 26 and 36 degree lenses. We currently have no extra lens tubes. There have been few times we have wanted wider lenses but not very often based on our typical throw distances. We will be transitioning some of our existing inventory into the "rep" plot of one of our on campus venues, probably the 19 through 36 fixed lenses and some zooms but this is still up in the air.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Alternative ways to think about this?

Thanks

Philip

 

[sk8rsdad]

Since the biggest cost of a Source Four LED II is the engine, I'd be inclined to buy them with whatever lens assembly is going to see the most use then pick up some alternate lens tubes or assemblies for likely alternate use. In my case that would involve 15-30 zooms for most uses, some EDLTs, 36 and 50 degrees, and cyc adapters for most other uses. My beancounters would have already had the heart attack on the $25K+ purchase so asking for another 3K-5K to double or triple their versatility wouldn't be a tough sell.

 

[rsmentele]

just remember that light output will be affected based on the lens you use....

ETC recommends only using the EDLT options...

 

[Les]

ETC recommends only using the EDLT options...

I'm sure the EDLT's will help you get all you can out of the fixture.

That reminds me, I need to ask my barber if I need a haircut .

 

[SteveB]

I would look hard at the intensity when using non-EDLT lenses as the cost of a non LED 36 deg. S4 ($299) plus 2 extra tubes (26 & 50 @ $121 ea.) adds up to nearly $550, VS. a S4 25/50 Zoom @ $475.

Thus I would assume the front end of a 25/50 is not going to cost the same as 3 separate lens tubes.

But intensity wise ?........

 

[TDN]

Do you have a rental house near you? Rent what you need for the first year then buy whatever you rented.

Sadly, you probably have to spend the money now or never see it again....but if you can manage it, you've got the best of both worlds.

Or go sit down with your LD, pull the plots from the last dozen shows, and go through and figure out where the LEDs would have been and what they would have needed. Then buy for that.

On the question of the EDLTs, buy/borrow/rent one, put it on a regular source 4, and see what the intensity is like. Or get a demo from your supplier and see if you can see a difference.

 

[Ric]

We've just got 50 LEd S4 series 2s.
I've chosen 3 lens types, 15/30 zoom, 25/50 zoom & fixed 50 degrees. None are EDLT as I didn't see the cost versus quality to be relevant in our venue.
The maximum distance from our FOH to the back wall is 12 metres ( approx 35 feet?), and from Lx Bar to stage floor is 6 metres ( 18 feet?).

The photometric diagrams from the ETC page are very easy to use and can tell you the effective light coverage at various distances.

 

[z2oo]

I've chosen 3 lens types, 15/30 zoom, 25/50 zoom & fixed 50 degrees.

I'm just curious, what's your reasoning for getting fixed 50s? Is it specific to your venue, or something else?

 

[Ric]

I'm just curious, what's your reasoning for getting fixed 50s? Is it specific to your venue, or something else?

We had fixed 50 degrees (Strand SL 600 W) already. This is being replaced with a fixed 50 degree S4 series 2 LED as part of the upgrade/replacement. In our standard rig, used for most of our local community shows, dance etc., they're used for things liked decal/breakup wash, large centre specials, and as such the fixed angle works fine. The 2 different zooms are for FOH washs, specials, gobos etc.
Our standard lighting rig has evolved into a very versatile and functional system over the past 12 years. I didn't need to start from scratch so have chosen lenses to suit fixtures in positions that I know that lens/zoom is already working in.
My FOH stage wash is changing slightly to suit the versatility of the LED's. Instead of having a 4 colour wash I've now got 2 lamps per positions (US/DS, OP C & P) to allow colour crossfading as if each fixture had a fixed colour. This allows a true fade from red to blue, cool to warm etc. rather than a single fixture colour fading.

 

[llburg]

...I've now got 2 lamps per positions (US/DS, OP C & P) to allow colour crossfading as if each fixture had a fixed colour. This allows a true fade from red to blue, cool to warm etc. rather than a single fixture colour fading.

I think this would make sense if you had scrollers, but since LED is additive, it shouldn't look any different if you specifically program it to do that. The only difference is that minuscule offset in angle.

 

[Ric]

I think this would make sense if you had scrollers, but since LED is additive, it shouldn't look any different if you specifically program it to do that. The only difference is that minuscule offset in angle.

Sorry for the tangent this thread is taking:
It will look significantly different. 2 Lights each with a different colour, crossfading from one to the other is going to give far superior results than a colour fade directly on a multi colour fixture. You are not sure what colours you'll get in the fade transition, depending on the LED colours used, and the colour transition on the desk that controls it.Not to mention intensity dips on the single fixture as differnt colour LEDs come into play.
Also the 2 colour shadowing from the different angles is often exactly what is sought in the lighting design, to give extra depth.

 

[rphilip]

So I played around with one of my zoom lenses on my S4 LED engine.

The soft focus diffuser helps but it's got a lot of color fringing when out of focus that goes way beyond the typical red/blue chromatic aberration.

The only EDLT's I've got are 14 degrees which I've been very happy with.

I'm planning to go with all EDLT's. The extra price of EDLT's vs normal lenses get's pretty small relative to S4LED's.

Philip

 

[JChenault]

Sorry for the tangent this thread is taking:
It will look significantly different. 2 Lights each with a different colour, crossfading from one to the other is going to give far superior results than a colour fade directly on a multi colour fixture. You are not sure what colours you'll get in the fade transition, depending on the LED colours used, and the colour transition on the desk that controls it.Not to mention intensity dips on the single fixture as differnt colour LEDs come into play.
Also the 2 colour shadowing from the different angles is often exactly what is sought in the lighting design, to give extra depth.

While I agree with your final point ( shadowing from two angles ) I know that the console manufacturers are working on all of the other issues. Ie very soon you will be able to pick how you want the color transition to look if you are using a modern desk.