Stage rigging collapses at Indiana State Fair

[BillESC]

1990 actually. Curtis Mayfield and 6 Others Injured at Brooklyn Concert - New York Times

Anyone know which CB member was named in the lawsuit(s) for having sold the Genie Towers? Perhaps he'll comment.

Yes, I was named in the lawsuit, the amount I was sued for was $ 125,000,000.00, because of my "proximity" to the case. You see, I had sold a pair of Genie lifts to the lighting company a few years before the fateful event. The second set of Genies which held the upstage truss that also fell were rented from Bash Lighting who was also named in the suit.

The case against myself and Bash were both thrown out but it took over two years and a lot of attorney fees considering the $ 400.00 profit I made on the original sale.

There are acts of God and there are acts of stupidity. Only one should be actionable. Knowing the difference is the hard part.

 

[bullseye]

I believe that when loads are being calculated the concern is " can a structure safely handle the load" not " can a structure safely handle the loads under X,Y and Z nature induced forces and loads ". There has always been a mindset in this industry that hell ya, we can do that and up it goes, but when you get 40,000-50,000 pounds top heavy on a structure 25-30 ft. ( or more ) up and add those type of winds and a couple sails ( roof and backdrop ), we as an industry really need to go back to the drawing board and rethink our priorities and the methods that we deliver our services. Maybe after all those outdoor show that we have done as an industry, we have caught a bunch of lucky breaks and some not so lucky ones, but we always come back and do it the same way. This time it really hurt.
You go to FACEBOOK and look at "PA OF THE DAY" and you see those rig jobs with speakers hanging from eyehooks and bungee cords, that is irresponsible. What happened here was professional personnel who do a great job day in and day out with a mission to deliver a great show, what happened was a perfect storm of failures and I'm not talking equipment, many things that went wrong all happened at the right time. It really is time to rethink the temporary outdoor concert venue experience.

 

[toproy]

Another big legal issue will be whether the stage had more weight on it than was recommended, and again, did anyone know, and what did they do to make sure it wasn't overloaded.

I'm not saying any of that was the case, but they're certainly questions to be asked. I met the guys and Mid-America a few years ago, and they seemed really competent to me. Anyone who knows the Thomas name knows they build quality products.

Thomas are normally heavier but seem better built quality than Tomcat. I do not know where is Thomas made but I know where Tomcat is manufactured and I have even met the owners of the factory in Guadalajara.

That roof does look heavy, it looks like they hanged everything including the kitchen sink.

 

[Van]

Just read this article on CNN

(CNN) -- The Indiana State Fair Commission is hiring New York-based engineering company Thornton Tomasetti Inc. to investigate Saturday's deadly stage collapse, officials said Tuesday.

The final line from the story, however, I take exception with; " "We followed a protocol very directly. It was working. This was a freakish act of God and I don't know how it could have been prevented," Klotz said." < emphasis mine>

 

[Footer]

The final line from the story, however, I take exception with; " "We followed a protocol very directly. It was working. This was a freakish act of God and I don't know how it could have been prevented," Klotz said." < emphasis mine>

Yup. Gods fault. Probably should trust someone else then.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Even if you DO want to call the wind gust a "freakish act of God", no one should have died. Again, no one should have died.

Even if it was impossible to lower the roof (due to the tons of PA, screen and truss hanging off of it) within the time frame of the approaching storm, an evacuation should have been ordered. At the very least, the area around the stage, in the "crash zone", should have been cleared. It is CLEAR that there is a dire need for rules that give absolutely authority to someone (who that someone should be, I don't have the experience to say) to make the cancel call.

For me, this is another classic example of "something bad has to happen before we change our ways", and for me, everyone involved with this stage and this show bears some level of responsibility. Everyone, from the promoters, to the fair organizers, to the state officials, the stage owners, the production company and everyone in between need to reevaluate their methods and determine how they could have acted within the best of their abilities to prevent this.

I remember a few years ago, back at USITT, Bill Sapsis made a comment about truss. He shared an anecdote about a time he needed to obtain engineering information on truss for a certain application. Well, the company was very protective of this information, but eventually, Bill got a clearance. His reaction, and his word to us all, was that if we all knew just how tight the tolerances and engineering were on truss, everyone would stop using it.

 

[MNicolai]

Wow, I just read that post from the meteorologist -- those Weather.com guys are really throwing Gov. Daniels and the Fair in front of the bus:

Let’s stop bucketing meteorology and weather in general into some magical mystery science that can’t be explained. When a tragic accident due to existing extreme weather conditions occurs, there is a notion to just throw your hands up in the air and say, “well, nothing could have been done to avoid this” or “nobody could have seen this coming” or “it was just a **** fluke”. In many instances, that just simply is not the case and it wasn’t the case in the tragedy at the Indiana State Fairgrounds. Powerful, damaging winds were a known threat several days before and during the minutes leading up to the stage collapse.

[…]

There are definitive and well-known reasons why hail reaches softball size or a tornado strikes one neighborhood but misses the other or why wind gusts reach 70 mph. This isn’t voodoo, this is meteorology.

It's beginning to sound like the Governor and the Fair organizers are alone in their corner on this issue. The entertainment industry is fed up with how this was handled and so are at least a few meteorologists.

I was shocked yesterday when I looked at my RSS feeds to find post after post after post on the matter, some of which included some less than friendly language. I remember no other events in the last few years that have gotten this many people riled up.

This meteorologist is pretty teed off too, as is this one. Also, this one is pretty miffed too.

 

[Van]

..... and his word to us all, was that if we all knew just how tight the tolerances and engineering were on truss, everyone would stop using it.

Heck I'd be interested to know if all the welds are checked on every peice of trus that leaves the factory. That image of the tower snapped up top really has me thinking. The only way you can explain that is the bolt plate popping and that simply shouldn't happen. Again as stated by several folks I don't think we should 'Arm Chair Quarterback' this issue but do some serious looking into best practices, standards, and guidlines.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Heck I'd be interested to know if all the welds are checked on every peice of trus that leaves the factory. That image of the tower snapped up top really has me thinking. The only way you can explain that is the bolt plate popping and that simply shouldn't happen. Again as stated by several folks I don't think we should 'Arm Chair Quarterback' this issue but do some serious looking into best practices, standards, and guidlines.

That is quite possibly the most terrifying part of that image. I will be curios to find out: if the welds broke, if the bolts pulled through the plates (and it they had washers on them, then wow), and if the bolts broke. Those are some serious forces at work.

 

[SteveB]

Yes, I was named in the lawsuit, the amount I was sued for was $ 125,000,000.00, because of my "proximity" to the case. You see, I had sold a pair of Genie lifts to the lighting company a few years before the fateful event. The second set of Genies which held the upstage truss that also fell were rented from Bash Lighting who was also named in the suit.

The case against myself and Bash were both thrown out but it took over two years and a lot of attorney fees considering the $ 400.00 profit I made on the original sale.

There are acts of God and there are acts of stupidity. Only one should be actionable. Knowing the difference is the hard part.

Bill, I had one co-worker that was the SM on that gig, another was monitor engineer and I knew both the owner of the lighting company as well as his assistant at the time (who now owns the lighting company that still services these events). As well, my road house was the rain date location and I recall a year after the accident the lighting company owner (Mark) brought in his system on a rainout. He was still using the same truss, including one piece that had been bent in the accident and to which he bent it back into straight (aluminum) with a section of steel pipe inserted " for added strength". We refused to rig it and he was one truss short that night. We shortly after stopped being the rainout house. Good riddance. Mark got out of the business.

 

[BillESC]

Bill, I had one co-worker that was the SM on that gig, another was monitor engineer and I knew both the owner of the lighting company as well as his assistant at the time (who now owns the lighting company that still services these events). As well, my road house was the rain date location and I recall a year after the accident the lighting company owner (Mark) brought in his system on a rainout. He was still using the same truss, including one piece that had been bent in the accident and to which he bent it back into straight (aluminum) with a section of steel pipe inserted " for added strength". We refused to rig it and he was one truss short that night. We shortly after stopped being the rainout house. Good riddance. Mark got out of the business.

I remember reading the depositions regarding the case (three banker boxes full,) and got a kick out of the following Q. and A.

Atty: Your company is called Stage Lights, Inc. correct?

Mark: Yes

Atty: In what state are you incorporated?

Mark: I'm not incorporated.

Atty: Then why is Inc. a part of your company name?

Mark: Because it sounds better.

 

[Esoteric]

Yes, SR, sorry, its been one of those days.

To me, without knowing all the facts, this seems like a bunch of events that taken on their own no one would have even noticed or would have dismissed as "just part of the day". But when stacked up one on the other ended in this terrible tragedy.

I didn't even think of the plates coming off. I have seen truss under heavy stress (in my work doing renovations/remodels) and have never seen those plates give way. As my welder said, if done properly those welds should be the strongest part of the structure. And shearing grade 8 bolts? Wow.

Mother nature is truly awe inspiring.

 

[techieman33]

Yes, SR, sorry, its been one of those days.

To me, without knowing all the facts, this seems like a bunch of events that taken on their own no one would have even noticed or would have dismissed as "just part of the day". But when stacked up one on the other ended in this terrible tragedy.

I didn't even think of the plates coming off. I have seen truss under heavy stress (in my work doing renovations/remodels) and have never seen those plates give way. As my welder said, if done properly those welds should be the strongest part of the structure. And shearing grade 8 bolts? Wow.

Mother nature is truly awe inspiring.

Do we know they were using grade 8 bolts? I've seen a couple of different compaines using grade 5 hardware to try and save a few dollars.

 

[Esoteric]

That was a complete assumption on my part. I always use grade 8 bolts period. For everything. So I assume anyone doing anything like that would always use grade 8 bolts. But after all the work of other companies I have had to clean up over the years I should know better than to assume these things.

 

[Footer]

Do we know they were using grade 8 bolts? I've seen a couple of different compaines using grade 5 hardware to try and save a few dollars.

The companies that put this stage up was a good shop with a clean track record. I would be totally amazed if they were not grade 8 bolts. With any of the structural elements involved, my personal feeling is that we should assume they put the thing up according to the plans provided by Thomas, guyed it correctly, and correctly torqued every single bolt. There are post-accident engineering specialists combing the wreckage as we speak, if anything was done incorrectly it will come out. However, lets not speculate on what our brethren did wrong in the structure. We can all see that there was a lot of things hanging to catch wind. Its pretty obvious that is what started the collapse. However, lets not just assume this thing was put up with gaff and bubble gum. This thread is being watched by national news outlets, lets keep complete and total hearsay out of this conversation.

 

[DaveySimps]

Reposting from another location:

FUND FOR NATHAN BYRDS: NATHAN WAS THE SPOT OP WHO LOST HIS LIFE IN THE INDIANA COLLAPSE. NATHAN WAS A SINGLE DAD OF 2 KIDS AGES 13 AND 15. I WAS INFORMED THE FAMILY IS STRUGGLING TO FIND MONEY FOR THE FUNERAL, CLOTHES FOR THE KIDS TO ATTEND THE FUNERAL AND THEY HAVE NO SCHOOL CLOTHES OR SCHOOL SUPPLIES, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO HELP PLEASE SEND DONATIONS TO:

IATSE Local 30
ATTN:NATHAN BYRD FAMILY
1407 EAST RIVERSIDE DRIVE
INDIANAPOLIS, IN 46202-203

 

[shiben]

The companies that put this stage up was a good shop with a clean track record. I would be totally amazed if they were not grade 8 bolts. With any of the structural elements involved, my personal feeling is that we should assume they put the thing up according to the plans provided by Thomas, guyed it correctly, and correctly torqued every single bolt. There are post-accident engineering specialists combing the wreckage as we speak, if anything was done incorrectly it will come out. However, lets not speculate on what our brethren did wrong in the structure. We can all see that there was a lot of things hanging to catch wind. Its pretty obvious that is what started the collapse. However, lets not just assume this thing was put up with gaff and bubble gum. This thread is being watched by national news outlets, lets keep complete and total hearsay out of this conversation.

Plus I think it misses the point, that there were spot operators in the truss AFTER a Severe thunderstorm Warning was in effect. You could see lightning and whatnot There were people still sitting in the seats. And no one bothered to evacuate the place. If they had evacuated the place, this thread would be very different, more "wow that thing fell. Good they all got out ok!" not 5 people died. A simple change in show management could have done that. I dont question that the stage was set up properly, it probably was. However, I still question if the stage itself could be made safer. But thats beside the point. The fact of the matter remains that if someone had been like "that storm looks large, lets hold the event for a few hours", the biggest issue would have been solved. People hoping they have out-engineered the weather... And in the Midwest too... Would think that the whole Tornado thing would have been riveted into peoples minds: wind can take your house and throw it a few miles away, dont try and mess with it...

 

[Esoteric]

You would think people in the midwest would have more awe for wind. I know we do down here in Texas.

 

[DuckJordan]

I think you hit a good point... Who's decision was it to send those Spot ops up? We had a large discussion this morning about that with 220 here. Couldn't figure out who decided to put em up there after hearing what was coming.

 

[Esoteric]

Don't know who put them up there, but I told an IA supervisor, a shows producer, and the steward on site to "F*&$ off" when they told me to climb a metal spot tower when I could see lightening 100-200 or so yards in the distance.

This might have been a little different, and I am not blaming these poor spot ops, but at some point you have to be responsible for your own safety. No show or job is worth dying over.

I am hoping that the IA guys here (and I get this feeling from what I have heard about this local) just had no clue as to what was coming.