Theatre consultant recommendation

Arun

Member
Hello everybody,

I'm looking at converting an industrial space into a small blackbox. I see a recurring theme based on reading a bunch of threads is to engage a theatre consultant. Can you provide a recommendation for the Toronto area?

We're a small non-profit and are on a tight budget. We don't know what consultants charge, but I predict working with a large outfit used to consulting for public projects is probably out of our budget. So...please recommend freelancers...Thank you.

A.
 
@BillConnerASTC is a consultant and a very active member here on control booth. Send him a private message and I am sure he can help you.
 
Something to consider in selecting a consultant. Their fees are a pittance to the project, but their job is to make the rest of the funds effective. "Saving" on them can backfire dramatically!

The one expense that doesn't do you much good is their travel. Bill is moderately close, NYC & LA companies are not.
 
Something to consider in selecting a consultant. Their fees are a pittance to the project, but their job is to make the rest of the funds effective. "Saving" on them can backfire dramatically!

The one expense that doesn't do you much good is their travel. Bill is moderately close, NYC & LA companies are not.
If you were doing a new construction project, the consultant visiting the site might not add much value; however, in a conversion situation their eyes may notice many things you wouldn't even thing to look for.
 
Hi Bill,

I'm posting this here because my conversation functionality isn't working for some reason.

Thanks for your reply back. There's no immediate urgency. We've been looking to find a suitable space for the last 2 months, and finally found a few that look promising. As we started to plan, we realized we need help.

Our budget is tight - we're not an institution doing this. In Mississauga, there's really not much space - and if we include Toronto - the space that's available is quite expensive. We concluded that we need our own space so the creation process can occur without extreme time constraints. And then we can also start collaboration with other artists without worrying about daily / weekly rental costs, etc.

We were thinking we'd like a blackbox that can seat around 100 people in flexible configurations. The problem is we don't know precisely how much sq. feet space we need in the industrial space to allow 100 people + the actual performance space.

Our immediate questions are around how much sq. feet space we need for seating plus stage, how high the ceiling should be, and what amperage it needs. This is something we need answered quickly since its crucial for ensuring the space is suitable.

After, we don't have any ideas on the actual budget for the conversion from rigging, wiring, lights, sound, projection, seating, etc. I would definitely want to work with you - I know this is your expertise. I expect we'd want to chat directly and go from there.

Look forward to your reply.

Thanks.

Arun.
 
In a "conversation" I told Arun I would contact them but also will post here about issues of consulting on very low budget projects. I've thought a lot over the years about this and will simply share some of that.
 
I've thought a lot over the years about this and will simply share some of that.

When to cut back and when to spend!
This is a critical issue for almost every arts/educational group I've ever worked with. And you don't need to be working on a whole building, everytime we buy anything we make a cost/benefit decision. I look forward to hearing what you and others have to say!
 
With regards to the low budget thing... to be brutally honest I don't think I have come across such a project in a long time where the expectation of product hasn't wildly exceeded the budget allocated. It's easy to associate "on a low budget" with small and/or amateur spaces; but even with the huge places, it's frequently the case that whilst the budget is in the millions, the amount of work they want doing still means you're making the same budgetary decisions as on the smaller projects... just scaled up!
 
With regards to the low budget thing... to be brutally honest I don't think I have come across such a project in a long time where the expectation of product hasn't wildly exceeded the budget allocated. It's easy to associate "on a low budget" with small and/or amateur spaces; but even with the huge places, it's frequently the case that whilst the budget is in the millions, the amount of work they want doing still means you're making the same budgetary decisions as on the smaller projects... just scaled up!
Yes, but with scaled up budgets, a professional consultant's time is a much smaller percentage of the budget, creating a much better value.
 
Theatre consultants in Canada are fairly plentiful, even more so out east. One thing to note, is if you have an architect assosiated with the project then they may have preferred consultants to work with. With the dollar the way it is right now, using an American consulting firm will cost more.

I've worked with and for some of the consultants on this list:

Eastern Canada:
Novita
Theatre Consulting Group
Martin Conboy Lighting Design
Field Concepts

Western Canada:
DWD
Schick Shiner & Associates
Bill Williams
 
Yes, but with scaled up budgets, a professional consultant's time is a much smaller percentage of the budget, creating a much better value.

My point was only that every job seems to be "low budget", as far as that the money available is almost always less than the cost of doing the job properly.

A theatre consultant can indeed make up a smaller percentage. But then again, the consultant will more likely be a multiple of consultants; and the length of their engagement will be longer - so how much smaller is variable.
 
I have thought about the "small projects" and theatre consulting often. First, for me, it simply costs money to open a project and make a minimum number of visits, so the consulting fee as a percentage of the total project cost is usually higher. So is the fee for architects and engineers and most institutions - like a school or university - understand that. A one time consumer of professional building design services may not. But that's my problem. Also, on a "real project" like a $3m or so and up high school auditorium and stage addition, I have no doubt that I will save them more than my fee, usually by my experience in the areas of general construction, and avoiding spending money on what someone thinks is required, though also by plans and specs for the theatre systems and equipment that generate fair competitive bids with good value. I'm continually amazed by what some architects and engineers as well as users think is important, and what they never consider.

What seems harder is that these very low budget projects are the projects that are most in need of really good consulting - whether it be the theatre, a/v, acoustics specialties or the more basic bricks and mortar and MEP input. There is no money to wast and the contingency is either very small or taken out early. One hidden condition can be a super serious problem.

I'm reminded of a recent call from a school that had raised money to renovate their (little) stage - new rigging (probably dead hung curtains and tracks), new lighting, new sound. I talked to them by phone for a while before they told me the total budget was under $100,000 - which doesn't go far - and of course they had not even addressed issues like needing a bigger door to get stuff in, ADA, and so on. All I could do is give them some telephone tine , a little research on vendors in their area that I could say were reputable and fair, and wish them the best. Filed in my "free consulting" folder and probably not very satisfying for either party. I hope by suggesting some priorities (like replacing the un-grounded dimming system with less than two dozen units - asbestos cords of course) and maybe thinking about painting some existing flats black to replace the tattered legs) they were better off.

So like any project, balancing the priorities - avoiding the gold plated a/v with unsafe ticky tacky rigging from Al's Mobile Rigging company - and not overlooking any essential functions is key, and I'd like to think I can help along those lines. Hopefully a combination of making it better, improving the return on the investment, and managing expectations so that what is built will still be well received and liked by users, performers, audience, etc., will justify - for the Owner - my fees.

And for sure, an early lesson I learned about the consulting business - and probably any business - is that there is not much profit in small projects. I think it's why not many professional theatre consultants even take them on. But I do - because they are fun in their own way and tend to be rewarding and the expertise appreciated.
 
Hi Bill,

I'm posting this here because my conversation functionality isn't working for some reason.

Thanks for your reply back. There's no immediate urgency. We've been looking to find a suitable space for the last 2 months, and finally found a few that look promising. As we started to plan, we realized we need help.

Our budget is tight - we're not an institution doing this. In Mississauga, there's really not much space - and if we include Toronto - the space that's available is quite expensive. We concluded that we need our own space so the creation process can occur without extreme time constraints. And then we can also start collaboration with other artists without worrying about daily / weekly rental costs, etc.

We were thinking we'd like a blackbox that can seat around 100 people in flexible configurations. The problem is we don't know precisely how much sq. feet space we need in the industrial space to allow 100 people + the actual performance space.

Our immediate questions are around how much sq. feet space we need for seating plus stage, how high the ceiling should be, and what amperage it needs. This is something we need answered quickly since its crucial for ensuring the space is suitable.

After, we don't have any ideas on the actual budget for the conversion from rigging, wiring, lights, sound, projection, seating, etc. I would definitely want to work with you - I know this is your expertise. I expect we'd want to chat directly and go from there.

Look forward to your reply.

Thanks.

Arun.

Arun - can you contact me off line - [email protected] - and we can discuss your project and see how - or if - I can help. Maybe it's just helping you get good help and finding good resources or maybe there is room in the budget that we can meet and I can visit the prospective venue.
 
I have thought about the "small projects" and theatre consulting often. First, for me, it simply costs money to open a project and make a minimum number of visits, so the consulting fee as a percentage of the total project cost is usually higher. So is the fee for architects and engineers and most institutions - like a school or university - understand that. A one time consumer of professional building design services may not. But that's my problem. Also, on a "real project" like a $3m or so and up high school auditorium and stage addition, I have no doubt that I will save them more than my fee, usually by my experience in the areas of general construction, and avoiding spending money on what someone thinks is required, though also by plans and specs for the theatre systems and equipment that generate fair competitive bids with good value. I'm continually amazed by what some architects and engineers as well as users think is important, and what they never consider.

Out of interest, what are your best stories for things one-time theatre builders have thought to be important, and what they haven't considered?
 
Out of interest, what are your best stories for things one-time theatre builders have thought to be important, and what they haven't considered?

Complete wall to wall ceilings in the auditorium, extensive casework in dressing rooms and control rooms, expensive clear finished wood floors on stage, and elaborate and expensive catwalk details come to mind. I'm sure there are others on a less frequent basis, probably many lobby centered.

Access is what is most ill considered - getting things and people on and off stage. Scenery to and from the exterior. Adequate passage to a shop. A route from the house and stage to the control room (How many times have I seen plans where it's out through the lobby, down the hall to a stair, up to second and back down a hall. It belongs behind main floor seating with nearly direct access.) A stage to lobby path that is not through the house. Access to everything high for service (though LED house lights help this but how many times I've walked into a building an heard of complaints about no way to change lamps.) Access to catwalks and grids. I'm a fanatic about comings and goings, and getting to all of the equipment. And especially access to rigging overhead - both a loading bridge and a way to inspect the loft blocks. I'm completely intolerant of underhung rigging with no access, no loading bridge, and probably no way to get a decent personnel lift onto stage, plus a stage that won't support it - a kind of grand slam of poor rigging planning.

And counterweight rigging without a purpose other than they thought it should be there, like the school I was in the other day - 17' high proscenium, 18' tall travelers and legs hung on counterweight sets, 21' high trim. WTF? And really, what good did it do to have borders on linesets here? That's ignoring ducts that run across stage and obstruct the stupid rigging.

From a purely aesthetic and support the performer point of view - wide and massive aisles, cross aisles, moats between stage and first row, etc. - all driving the last seat further away. This usually accompanies cross aisles at the front of balconies - and impossible sight line condition that cannot be overcome - and often significant violation of basic egress and accessibility regulations.

And noise - roof top units on top of the auditorium. Band rooms adjacent to stages without a prayer of isolation. Mechanical rooms ditto. If the auditorium and stage are not quiet, they are much less good.

Go back to the basics - a quiet windowless flat floor room with very adequate doors, a strong overhead structure, a big electrical feed, and a resilient floor that is kind to performers moving and can be attached to. Given those basics and everything else can be fitted out - maybe in a day or maybe a week or longer if o be permanent - but overhead hanging of stuff, risers and chairs, av systems, lighting systems - easy peasy.

A few of my least and most favorite things....
 
And for sure, an early lesson I learned about the consulting business - and probably any business - is that there is not much profit in small projects. I think it's why not many professional theatre consultants even take them on. But I do - because they are fun in their own way and tend to be rewarding and the expertise appreciated.
This explains a lot about your motivation to participate in the CB community. Thanks for being here.
 
From annother thread regarding a HS theater that functions as a roadhouse though not designed for it:
If anything, we lucked out that it was equipped just well enough to get dug in as rental venue to make it a self-sustainable facility operating in the black ...
I think it is worth noting that projects too small call also be difficult to make economically viable. Of course it is also possible for projects to be too big to become economically viable.
 
Access is what is most ill considered

Well I completely agree with you here! I don't know how it bypasses so many people's train of thought.

I did a job in a brand new, built from scratch theatre. Walked on stage, noticed that the full height roof extended right down to the loading dock. Brilliant! Subsequently noticed though that the doors into the loading dock however were just normal 2.2m pedestrian doors. Which opened out onto a 2.5m high underground car park. The entrance to which was 100m away. So, whilst the loading ramp could easily take the biggest piece of set you could throw at it, you'd have to take it off the truck 100m away in a piece no more than 2 metres tall.

There was an advance truss, on CM motors. The motors were installed motor-up with installed cabling. Yep that seems sensible. Installed to the beam, and then the ceiling was added, so the motors were above the ceiling. This seems sensible at first - nice and neat, just small holes in the ceiling for the chain to pop out. But no. The motors were now sealed inside the ceiling. There was no access available, at all. No forethought for maintenance or inspection at all. Just sealed inside forever!

The stage trusses were on winches, with the pulleys spread along the beams and the winches at the end. The winches were huge heavy things, sat on cross beams between the I Beams. We could not fathom how the hell they got them up there. Cue asking some questions... oh yes, they lowered them in with a crane before the roof went on. So how do we get them out if they go wrong? Oh... I see, that's not an option without demolishing the swimming pool above it. Oh and as per your thoughts... yes the pulleys were out over stage with no access. And you couldn't get a tower / scaff / ladder / genie in; because the air conditioning mob, the fire sprinkler mob, and the CCTV mob, had all come in with their normal "f**k everybody else" attitude to installations, and run precisely twenty six thousand metres of cable tray in all directions possible so as to obscure as much of the fly tower as possible, remove access to the pulleys, and reduce the max trim height of the trusses by about 2 metres.

Honestly the day I head up a big theatre install, the day will begin by a conversation with the contractors along the lines of "if you even attempt to run a unistrut cable tray across space that is otherwise earmarked as open space, and not along walls / beams etc as would be sensible, I will cut the cable tray down and beat you around the head with it until you die."
 
Fire sprinkler contractors - grrrrr. I don't doubt the usefulness and the need for fire sprinklers, but trying to get them to layout and install sprinklers in anyway other than code minimum at lowest cost is really hard. I work to convince structural engineer to have holes fabricate in loft block beams - which costs next to nothing if planned - for sprinklers so they don't obstruct rigging, and getting the sprinkler contractor to use them is a lot harder than pulling teeth.
 

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