Design Tight Spaces & Tiny Fixtures

[CraigV]

(Smaller than a Colortran.)

Hey, I'm designing the lights a realistic/steampunk interpretation of "Madwoman of Chaillot" opening in the middle of next month. It's boulevard seating and we want to really "wow" the audience. The company it's with is well-respected for its longevity but most people don't really think of them as the most cutting-edge. We want to change that image a bit.

The set has four cafe tables with lots of holes in them sitting in the playing area for the entire first act. A few months ago, I saw a concert that had small accent LED lights on the bottom of the drum kit and I was hoping to figure out what lights I could use to simulate that same concept. The concept of having very tiny but powerful DMX RGB lights (to hook up to the Element 40). Slow, smooth fades would be really nice, but the initial concept was for them to change rapidly to help highlight who's talking without changing the "daylight" wash.

I've seen the advertisements for that Gantom DMX light and have sort of looked at their website but if anyone has any experience with those or other very tiny DMX fixtures, it would be great to get some input.

 

[ship]

Never seen such a fixture, forwarded it to my counterpart that buys such things that I make work. Work as a team, he concentrates on the lights and electronics, I focus on the how to, wiring, mounting and getting it made.

-What is the budget like for doing this part of the project? Are these affordable or are you looking for something more economic but similar? I remember X-Lite LED's that were designed to be mounted but it's been a few years since I bought one. They were about a +50mm hole size. Something made to be mounted will save man/hours and better represent beam spread.

-I would assume most encoders for doing LED take DMX and other ethernet unless architectural fixture that might also be DMX and or ethernet. Element 40 is your own problem in converting to for stuff I don't deal with.

-I assume http://www.gantom.com/lighting-fixtures/gantom-dmx-flood/ is the flood fixture you are looking at as per an up light. Interesting design choice as per an up-light, if your talent can find their light, perhaps angle them a bit towards as opposed to just up light. Going MR-11 or MR-8 halogen assuming various colors is probably not viable, too bad the old Color Kenetics MR-16 lamps are not available as with other types of small LED color changer. Just remember that a LED isn't a heated source so the talent might find it harder to find their light.

-Given production schedule, experience assumed for 160 man/hours to do four tables with "lots of holes" in mounting what ever system you go with, cable packages, power supplies etc. in making with an experienced in fabricating. Rough guess for planning preliminary and if all of the R&D is already done and parts ready to go. How many sources or lights and channels will be important.

-This assuming not taking the lights you are considering apart in using the LED mounted platform only mounted to your table as with the electronics package. This would help with beam spread in removing the fixture from the use which will reduce beam spread reduction. Instead countersink hole in table to silicone up the LED platform disc. from the fixure itself. Extra man/hours added to do this, but would preserve 66 degree field angle or better given normaly a LED is 120 degrees. Lots better for a design to step away from just a lighting fixture mounted under a table and consider removing the PAR Can as it were about it so as to make the table it's own lighting fixture. Did I mention man/hours and R&D costs of this TBA? But now you get into a designed concept.

-Given or assuming at act change the tables are removed, are the tables to be quickly and easily moved or fixed on a set wagon moved? Assume it's not a tour.

-Dia. of the outer cylinder of fixture you specify is 41mm so your hole thru the table size is about a minimum of 48mm assuming you want to keep beam spread, or less beam spread and perhaps like 36mm as per a donut hole in the table top to let the light out. You also have a 55.25mm fixture length under the table with cord sticking out. Very short but you will have to dress cable really well.

-Short lead time.... welcome to my world in a huge project still under development that I'm being let know about for about the same lead time in preliminary stage. Seems like time you have but the R&D and approval process + engineering and availability of product and parts.... make this a rush huge project become a problem. Your guys if also working on the set with the various over-runs and also will make it a huge challenge. In your case you might have just enough time if other things don't pop up, in my case it will be long hours TBA for a different and huge in scale project.

-If you have this project as a realistic goal, better start R&D right now and every day counts in figuring out how you will be doing so. Get the parts in and the first table ready to go as with figuring out how to cable and power it up. Especially if your crew is involved with other elements of the production, after it's figured out they will be working long hours on this concept.

-Steam Punk fun.. Takes time and helped someone win a award with a concept - given time to R&D the concetpt.

 

[CraigV]

The budget is fairly fluid. The company has money but won't tell me how much. As these are meant for effect lighting (and not actually lighting faces), I would like to go the cheapest route possible. One light mounted beneath each table aimed straight up should do the trick. I'm not really looking to build a fixture. I'm looking for a tiny fixture that provides a very wide spread of variable-colored light.

As far as cabling, the stage is designed to be about the height of a curb off the stage, so we can most likely tuck the cables directly underneath and unplug when they are moved during intermission.

In terms of doing "R&D", I believe I have begun the "R" part by posting my questions here.

 

[Amiers]

It sounds fun. You could do something like this

http://www.chauvetlighting.com/slimpar-56-irc-ip.html

http://www.chauvetlighting.com/ezpar64-rgba.html

Build it into the floor/wagon/stage so it is flush with the floor/wagon/stage.

Then run your cables to whatever pockets they need to go to.

 

[CraigV]

I was looking at the Slimpar earlier. My concern with that is that the DMX plugs into the back, but maybe we could just get a bunch of right-angle connectors.

I feel like Slimpars will be easier to convince the higher-ups to purchase. $80 each, usable in many places for many reasons.

I'm going to hold off on requesting them for a week or so, just to see if anyone has input on them or this project.

 

[ship]

So the size of the hole cut in the table isn't as much a factor by way of 6" or 8" hole for the light as opposed to less than 2" for the Gantom which I love on my part as small dia. LED. Small LED lights have mostly dissipeard from the market in the past couple of years and I also love it's short fixture length. My point on taking apart the fixture was to get to as small as possible that fixture body sticking out from under the table. Angling the light mounting followed the small beam angle which the larger PAR 56 or PAR 64 size wouldn't have as much a problem with in aiming straight up.

Good the scene starts the show for startup and much easier to pull apart for intermission scene change. Still lots of cable to be dressed under the table with movement during scene changes - can be done in linking data and power.

Rethinking man/hours, at least 120 man/hours I would think store bought PSU's, cable and fixtures for the four tables. Gotta mount the lights and figure out a lot of stuff. Finalize the R&D to see what is going to work for how you propose to do it. From that assure the funding ASAP for materials - at least 1/3 above fixture/PSU cost rough guess, and labor devoted to the project. Just trying to drive this part home while still in the planning stage because if all time/moneymaterials don't fall into place, you will either have to change the plan, spend more money, put more labor into it when short on time.

My on project... probably a go, been simplified some since the initial viewing of it, still though a 60x30 grid of LED panels portable. Panels our outsource so I will have to fight for prototype in just figuring out, and the clock already started ticking. Outsourcing cable etc. as much possible as long as what we can get conforms to our standards and will probably have to supply the wire in doing the outsource. Small parts fabricated elsewhere etc. Only a few weeks to get done.

Hope you are in the same stage of concern but not worry yet on your project. You don't have a lot of time if something doesn't work out.