Upgrading Colortran ENR 24 to support LEDs

[Red Arrow]

Hi - I'm working with a client who wants to upgrade their house lights to LED and is using an ENR24 dimming rack. Is there a "NoDIM" or relay module available for the ENR 24 or should I just recommend using a DMX relay panel like the units from Lightronics and others?

The application is a house light/can fixture retrofit using LEDs so we need to get unmolested AC to the fixtures using the existing wiring. Normally we recommend that customers use DMX to control power to the new LEDs versus just hard wiring them on. Their larger dimming rack companies offer NoDim modules designed for this application.

We manufacture 20-100W LED retrofit kits for retrofiting Par cans of all sizes.

Thanks!

 

[SteveB]

Contact Steve Short at Lite-trol Service. He's manufactured relay modules for the Colortran D192 dimming system and could probably adapt a unit for ENR.

It might be more cost effective then buying a new relay system.

800 548 3876

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Agree with Steve B for that issue - Lite-trol. Two issues to consider - we don't put houselights on relays. You walk into a space and you generally want instant on, and there is inevitably an unacceptable delay (IMHO) when you try to program it so the house on button is also turning on the relay as well as sending a dmx signal to the fixtures. This can be further complicated if houselights transfer to emergency. I'd generally recommend bypassing the dimmers to a small circuit breaker panel - probably don't need 12 circuits if it was 48 previously. But a issue worthy of discussion.

 

[Red Arrow]

Thanks guys!! - I have a call in to Steve, waiting to hear back.

Agree on the turn on issue. We prefer to see customers use either a breaker panel or a dedicated DMX channel for powering the lights via relays, separate from the channels assigned to dim the lights. The point we always emphasize to the customer is to turn off power when the lights aren't in use to maximize the lifetime of the LED drivers.

Yes, there's always a good opportunity to reduce the number of "modules" when retrofitting. We've had customers replace 1000W cans with our 90W LEDs for a significant reduction in breakers/modules required.

 

[Mark A Knight]

Hi - I'm working with a client who wants to upgrade their house lights to LED and is using an ENR24 dimming rack. Is there a "NoDIM" or relay module available for the ENR 24 or should I just recommend using a DMX relay panel like the units from Lightronics and others?

The application is a house light/can fixture retrofit using LEDs so we need to get unmolested AC to the fixtures using the existing wiring. Normally we recommend that customers use DMX to control power to the new LEDs versus just hard wiring them on. Their larger dimming rack companies offer NoDim modules designed for this application.

We manufacture 20-100W LED retrofit kits for retrofiting Par cans of all sizes.

Thanks!

Sorry to be late to the party again, but the simple answer is yes. The Colortran ENR Dimmer System can be setup to have dimmers work in a NON-DIM operation mode. This allows the sign wave to flow completely free in the system. If you need additional assistance, please contact me at www.goknight.com. Thank you. Mark A. Knight

 

[RickR]

@Mark_A_Knight non-dim settings are not generally suitable for LED power. There is usually still some wave form alteration that causes problems for the low voltage converters in the fixtures. It has been much discussed here and in many other lighting forums.

 

[RonHebbard]

Hi - I'm working with a client who wants to upgrade their house lights to LED and is using an ENR24 dimming rack. Is there a "NoDIM" or relay module available for the ENR 24 or should I just recommend using a DMX relay panel like the units from Lightronics and others?

The application is a house light/can fixture retrofit using LEDs so we need to get unmolested AC to the fixtures using the existing wiring. Normally we recommend that customers use DMX to control power to the new LEDs versus just hard wiring them on. Their larger dimming rack companies offer NoDim modules designed for this application.

We manufacture 20-100W LED retrofit kits for retrofiting Par cans of all sizes.

Thanks!

Up here in Canada / extreme suburban Toronto, a Colortran dealer / distributor / eastern Canada service rep' custom created a dual, breaker only, module for an ENR dual 24 way / 48 way rack to provide raw AC power for four ETC metal halide architectural fixtures being switched on / off by a pair of outboard relays under the control of a separate system. In this case the ENR rack had one spare slot available and was the most convenient location to source raw power. Chris Mentis was the area Colortran designated service provider who had no trouble at all in providing the then custom module upon two days notice. I LOVE your term "unmolested AC". I'd never heard it described / expressed this way, love it a LOT, and may find myself using it with your permission and crediting you whenever I do so. Please don't remind me of my ENR experiences, the old Abbott and Costello routine "Slowly I turn, step by step, inch by inch . . . Niagara Falls" springs to mind.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[microstar]

Sorry to be late to the party again, but the simple answer is yes. The Colortran ENR Dimmer System can be setup to have dimmers work in a NON-DIM operation mode. This allows the sign wave to flow completely free in the system. If you need additional assistance, please contact me at www.goknight.com. Thank you. Mark A. Knight

Sorry to say that switching ENR modules to non-dim thru the non-dim DIP switches does not by-pass the power cubes, therefore the "sign" (sine) wave still has switching components in the waveform and is not recommended for LED drivers, as has been previously stated many times in this forum.
Since you seem to be searching out past ENR threads, you might check this out.

 

[derekleffew]

... created a dual, breaker only, module for an ENR ...

http://www.goknight.com/leviton-col...-dual-dimmer-conversion-to-a-constant-module/
Both items above raise some concerns. Here are a few:

Although one would think you could bypass the SSR and choke, that's not a good idea! Besides voiding out any UL or other approval for the unit, something else happens:
The "dead short" current skyrockets when you remove the choke and SSR, which both act as resistors in a dead-short scenario. Because of this, the breaker must be able to function at a higher flash current without self destructing. Constant power modules are designed with this in mind.

 

[RonHebbard]

http://www.goknight.com/leviton-col...-dual-dimmer-conversion-to-a-constant-module/
Both items above raise some concerns. Here are a few:

http://www.goknight.com/leviton-col...-dual-dimmer-conversion-to-a-constant-module/
Both items above raise some concerns. Here are a few:

http://www.goknight.com/leviton-col...-dual-dimmer-conversion-to-a-constant-module/
Both items above raise some concerns. Here are a few:

http://www.goknight.com/leviton-col...-dual-dimmer-conversion-to-a-constant-module/
Both items above raise some concerns. Here are a few:

http://www.goknight.com/leviton-col...-dual-dimmer-conversion-to-a-constant-module/
Both items above raise some concerns. Here are a few:

Ron Hebbard ALSO mentioned the custom Colortran dual constant power module was created by the authorized Colortran service rep' for the eastern half of Canada. Ron Hebbard should have mentioned the standard breakers were replaced with breakers of a much higher interrupt rating. Please forgive me for failing to also point this out.
Whip me! Beat me!! Make me write bad cheques!!!
Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa as my Catholic cohorts are often heard to exclaim.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[John Palmer]

Colortran had ENR constant feed modules. They may be difficult to find, but they did exist.
John

 

[Mark A Knight]

Sorry to say that switching ENR modules to non-dim thru the non-dim DIP switches does not by-pass the power cubes, therefore the "sign" (sine) wave still has switching components in the waveform and is not recommended for LED drivers, as has been previously stated many times in this forum.
Since you seem to be searching out past ENR threads, you might check this out.

@RickR - Yes, it is true that the Non-Dim on an ENR Dimmer Rack goes through the power cube. However, if the Sine Wave is NOT regulated, then the entire Sine Wave passes through the Power cube. The only possible regulation occurs when the power cube is turned on and off. This is less than one cycle and will NOT typically hurt LED lighting fixtures. Is it possible to hurt LED drivers with a regulated output? Yes, but this is an unregulated output. The best option is always a relay, that is simply opening and closing, but even in this case, the relay can open and/or close in the middle of the Sine Wave, which can cause the same issue. We have a LOT of LED lighting fixtures that have worked on the NON-DIM mode of ENR Dimmers with no issues, for multiple years.

 

[STEVETERRY]

Up here in Canada / extreme suburban Toronto, a Colortran dealer / distributor / eastern Canada service rep' custom created a dual, breaker only, module for an ENR dual 24 way / 48 way rack to provide raw AC power for four ETC metal halide architectural fixtures being switched on / off by a pair of outboard relays under the control of a separate system. In this case the ENR rack had one spare slot available and was the most convenient location to source raw power. Chris Mentis was the area Colortran designated service provider who had no trouble at all in providing the then custom module upon two days notice. I LOVE your term "unmolested AC". I'd never heard it described / expressed this way, love it a LOT, and may find myself using it with your permission and crediting you whenever I do so. Please don't remind me of my ENR experiences, the old Abbott and Costello routine "Slowly I turn, step by step, inch by inch . . . Niagara Falls" springs to mind.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

Sorry to say, but that new breaker has a rating of no more than 10,000 AIC. This will not make up for the current limiting value of the choke that is no longer there. Additionally, the modification is not UL listed. If the rack in question has a high available fault current, this becomes a life safety issue.

ST

 

[RonHebbard]

What does Colortran, or Strand or ETC for that matter, include in a constant power module in addition to a breaker?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[microstar]

What does Colortran, or Strand or ETC for that matter, include in a constant power module in addition to a breaker?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

In addition to the circuit breaker, a replaceable fuse that provides short circuit protection and fault current coordination, according to the CC20 spec sheet.

 

[brucej]

Hi, I am a new member of ControlBooth and am responsible for lighting at my church. I am hoping I can get some general direction on options for our ENR 24 rack with a Macro Electronics DCI 22500 - 120 panel, and converting to LED's. We have a mix of spotlights, par 64 cans and chandeliers (each with 24 40w incandescent candelabra bulbs). I know this is an old thread and I have read it several times but most of the technical items are over my head. In my ignorance, I hoped that we could do a gradual move to LED's and run a mix of incandescent and LED's during the change over but the thread discussions don't seem to support that. Didn't know if anything had changed in the last 6 years regarding dimmable LEDs and the ENR rack.

Unfortunately, we have been in the red for the last 7 or 8 years so I won't be able to get much money for a solution. Bottom line is we will probably have to stay with our current setup unless there are some low budget options to move to LED. Thankfully, Lite-Trol and Goknight have been able to do the occasional dimmer repairs we've needed to keep our current configuration operational.

Thanks in advance for any options or advice you might have.

Bruce

 

[TimMc]

Not advice about hardware solutions... but some "green" fixing. Green as in money.

It's easier to raise money for a project than it is for operations or the general fund. People tend to be more generous when they can see ( literally in this case ) how their gifts contribute to the ministry, or avoid obsolescence, etc. It will take a couple years but it can't get done unless it gets started.

Good luck.

 

[brucej]

TimMc

Not advice about hardware solutions... but some "green" fixing. Green as in money.

It's easier to raise money for a project than it is for operations or the general fund. People tend to be more generous when they can see ( literally in this case ) how their gifts contribute to the ministry, or avoid obsolescence, etc. It will take a couple years but it can't get done unless it gets started.

Good luck.

Hey Tim, thanks for the encouragement and advice.