Warm and Cool Base Plot

[CameronLD]

Hello CB!

I am a rising junior and the lighting designer for my local high school's theatre program and live shows (think talent competitions). In the past, the most we have done with anything other than white washes and a colored cyc have been a few (like no more than 3) specials per show, whether that be a gobo projected on the cyc, or something like a single pink-gelled light for a romantic scene. However, as the new lighting designer I am trying to make us a more legitimate theatre.

So, what I am thinking of doing next year is installing a warm and cool "base plot" that can be slightly modified for each show to fit the needs of each show. I have attached what I have so far to this post, and was hoping that I could get some critiques/suggestions to fix it and make it even better.

Right now my school pretty much only uses Strand Coolbeams (a discontinued, 575 watt ellipsoidal) in denominations of 19 and 26 degrees for front lighting, and fresnels for top lighting, which are in need of replacement. To solve this I immediately went with the pedigree of the S4, and through my work with Beamwright 5 I think everything should be able to cover its assigned areas. In addition, although my school only uses Rosco gels, through research and talking with an LD I know at Emerson college I chose to go with Lee for the main gels for this plot, and I hope that these colors will blend and work well as front/top lighting. Though this project will take the majority of my budget for each of my next 5 shows, I am convinced it will add immensely to our capabilities, and I hope that those who come after me will then be able to have a strong foundation on which to build upon.

A few questions I had:
- I heard for a McCandless plot (like I hope this one is similar to), you should have your warm and cool lights for each area aimed at 45 degrees opposite of each other. Is this necessary/true and can this be accomplished with a cove that curves such as mine?
- Are my areas too big? I would like to have another one (so they could all be smaller) but I did the math awhile ago and it seemed as if I wouldn't have enough dimmers to add another (especially because my theatre has two outlets for each dimmer, cutting the number of outlets/dimmers we have in half).
- What do you think I can improve?
- What should work and what won't?

Thanks any help you can give!

 

[StradivariusBone]

What's wrong with the fresnels that makes you want to replace them? We've got about 24 1KAF's and 8 75Q's that are approaching 20 years old and still serviceable.

 

[CameronLD]

Well part of it might just be the model of fresnel that they are, although I cannot be sure exactly what kind they are, as I haven't been able to find any documentation on them or in our closet. However, I think most of them are old (like rusty old) Altman 65Qs (I think that is what I found online). The biggest problems I have with them are their incredibly small field angle (even at a flood focus) (although that might be exaggerated due to our huge stage and low battens), and dimness (if that is a word). What I mean to say is, since they use like 500 watt bulbs with a small field angle, they just aren't effective for what I'm trying to accomplish. Regardless, it seems as if almost every other theatre (no matter how small or rinky dink) only has ellipsoidal and fresnels, I see at least pars in that mix everywhere else I have gone.

 

[Les]

You're building a repertory plot.

Just about any fresnel can go up to at least 750w. Try that. Many can be lamped up to 1,000w, but not the 65Q. I forgot the lamp code, but I believe there is a 575w lamp which can be used in the 65Q and is supposed to be quite good. In the end, fresnels are more alike than different. It's hard to find one much more efficient than the other.

As far as angles go, 45 degrees is supposed to be the "sweet spot", but there is plenty of wiggle room depending on the space. I haven't seen your file, so your coves may or may not work. Generally the issue is that the beam will overshoot the target and bleed in to the adjacent areas. Not always a huge deal unless you're trying to get some really tight isolations.

Areas are usually between 8 and 10' diameter, but this can also depend on the show and space. The McCandless plot is a good place to start, but remember that it's just a suggestion and can be tweaked as needed. Don't forget color washes, and feel free to add back light, side light, etc if you have the ability.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jglodeklights]

Going with 50's and 36's with only 3 across to cover such a wide stage is going to be problematic in that you will have big dimly lit areas. You'll want at least 5 areas across and use as narrow throw a lens as possible. Likely why you have the 19's and 26's. Same for your top light, although that may require seven if your pipes are extremely low. How high are they?

A more efficient way to get more out of the plot may be to go only two areas front to back, five across. Use the SL's you have. Maybe purchase a few Source 4's to augment or to be one complete system. Optically, especially with R119 in them, they are similar enough to do this. Source4's are your cool wash, the SL's your warm.

It does sound like you need some new wash fixtures for overhead, or more of them and lamped up to 750 watts.

Regarding dimmers, your dimmers are likely 2400watt dimmers. I'd check to see what you have. There is nothing wrong with having 5 areas across, but having the two left and two right of center twoferred, or plugged into the same dimmer. It isn't as ideal, but it gets the job done.

 

[derekleffew]

Random thoughts:

... In addition, although my school only uses Rosco gels, through research and talking with an LD I know at Emerson college I chose to go with Lee for the main gels for this plot, and I hope that these colors will blend and work well as front/top lighting. ...

Don't become a color snob at such a tender age. To prove the point, the warms you have chosen, L013 and L020, ARE in fact exact copies of Roscolux 13 and 20 respectively. R64 is close enough to L161, and R60 to L202, that I highly doubt you (and many professionals) could tell the difference in a blind taste test. If your venue normally stocks Roscolux, no need to go to Lee, at least for these specific colors. The cools are okay; I wouldn't base a rep design on those warms (not a big fan of straw), but that's for you to learn via time-honored trial and error.

If I read your plot correctly, the DS areas are 23' wide and 10' deep, which just isn't going to work. Lighting areas need to be circular or square, and remember, you won't be shuttering to those perimeters on the floor, but rather at +5' up--face height. Even five areas across is a little thin, but workable with specials at the extreme sides. Twofering will probably be necessary, but isn't a bad thing. I doubt you need three areas deep from the cove, the US zone should probably come from the First Electric to maintain somewhat consistent angle of elevation and reduce shadows on the cyc.

As to the 45 degree thing, McCandless said "maximum plasticity (three-dimensionality) is best achieved using 45 up and 45 off center (the diagonals of a cube)." Quite often the theatre architecture forces a compromise; as well all of lighting is compromise. Also, why should a performer's face be straw when he faces SR and blue when he faces SL? That being said, your angles look too frontal to me. Most people strive for 45 left and right, and then add a smack dab center light in each area anyway, gelled ambivalent.

What's with the gap in the cyc lights? Is [HASHTAG]#66[/HASHTAG] broken? Unlike other areas that have leeway, cyc lights need to be almost surgically placed with regards to spacing, lest one ends up with undesirable hot spots and dark spots, and/or poor color mixing.

I see the book A Practical Guide to Stage Lighting by Steve Shelley in your future. Now in its Third Edition, a used First or Second edition (I actually prefer the First) is quite reasonably priced and will teach you much. Old discussion thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/a-practical-guide-to-stage-lighting-second-edition.15582 .

... I forgot the lamp code, but I believe there is a 575w lamp which can be used in the 65Q and is supposed to be quite good. ...

You already get great output in the Altman 6" fresnel- You just need to use the BTH lamp (575W, 115V), which is based on the GLC capsule. Same high lumens (15,500), same high Color temp (3200K). ...

... I never knew the stage lighting industry had been clamoring for a new lamp for the 65Q 6" Fresnel Spotlight--a design at least 35 years old.

So let me get this straight. It's brighter than a
BTL; 500W; 500 hour; 3000K; 11,000 lumens, LPW=22.0,
BTH; 575W; 300 hour; 3250K; 15,500 lumens, LPW=27.0,
but not as bright as a
BTN; 750W; 500 hour; 3000K; 17,000 lumens, LPW=22.7,
and no where close to a
BTR; 1000W; 250 hour; 3200K; 28,500 lumens, LPW=28.5,
???
Given the spherical reflector and purposefully diffused Fresnel lens, there's little to be gained from a lamp with a more compact filament design. ...

I've yet to be convinced, but will admit it's been many years since I've used a 65Q.

 

[microstar]

I generally try for lighting areas from 8-12 feet diameter. Depends on size of the stage, isolation desired, and available instruments/dimmers. We need some info on the throw and trim heights. Agree about needing maximum intensity you can come up with. I would try to lay out the cove fixtures APPROXIMATING a 45 degree angle from the centerline of each area to its warm and cool light. The longer the throw, the further apart the warm and cool for each area will be, for example A2 W&C will be further apart than A1 W&C. Obviously you cannot accomplish this on the areas nearest the proscenium or the proscenium will cut off the beam from the offstage instrument. Depending on the height from the stage floor and distance from the proscenium to your cove, you might double-check that you can actually light your upstage row of areas from there. It is usually not possible to light that far upstage from the cove; in any case, the vertical angle would be extremely flat.
The usual convention is to number the areas going across the stage rather than up and down stage, but whatever works the best for you is what you should do.

Edit: Derek beat me to most of this!

 

[np18358]

A few comments, please don't take any offense. I personally like the Strand Coolbeams. There is a school in my district that has them, and they are super reliable. I also love the 360 degree barrel rotation. Don't hesitate to use them. They can be slightly harder to bench focus, if you are not getting a flat field, but it's not a huge deal. I will say that I personally don't prefer the McCandless Method, but it certainly is a valid technique. I think if you can't the optimal angle, just go with a straight on W/C. I prefer a bastard amber and a steel blue, if you are going to primarily use them at the same time (R60 and R02). If used separately to create different looks, I llike a pink and a lav (R33 and R51/53/57[darker]). My favorite Lee for front light is L790 and L174. I love the way they interact. Derek is right; if you have current Rosco stock, and the colors are close/similar, might it be better to save the money for something else? I personally will purchase Lee for a specific show, because they have a wider diversity of colors, and if it is a long run, the High Temp option is a big deal on Saturate Colors, however, I will always purchase Rosco (or their Apollo Equivalents) for stock, as I find their colors to be more versatile, and I can often find multiple uses for the same color. Don't discard GAM, their are some people who want to get last pieces of their stockoff the shelf, and it might go for a deal. Lastly on gel, think about Apollo. One of their staff members is on the CB, and I know they love to help out schools. It might be helpful if you post a list of all of your instruments and detail your space a little bit more. It's hard to assess the situation without more information. It might also me nice to get a little more information on the type of shows that you do. Do you do dance ever? If so might you want to use sidelight? It appears as if your FOH position has 30 Circuits. Is this correct The "having two outlets (circuits) for one dimmer", is known as duplicating or repeating circuits. The genera consensus about them is negative, and I agree. It's very hard to design a flexible plot for a theatre, when the installer has the system circuiting set up for a "two color top wash" etc... If you have a lot of the 26 degree coolbeams, you might consider using them in the cove for your front light wash, and using the 36's and 50's as a pipe end, or over head, as needed. Then use the 19's as specials FOH. I find it helpful to have two or three center for a center special (for drama and music), and one on left and right to throw up for lecterns and podiums. The 50's aren't going to light up your stage well, and you are going to have to run your other instruments lower, and then you run int amber drift. The same probably goes for the 36's, but to a somewhat lesser extent. I second all that has been said about the Fresnels, I know of some very old Mole Richardsons that are still functioning. It's hard to recommend something without seeing the space, but I might Suggest the following:
For Front Light - A two color system of your choosing (see what I have said above) 5 Areas across, 3 US/DS. 2 of the US/DS alleys from the Cat (using 26's), and 1 alley from the 1st Electric (using 36's)
For Top Light - Similar to what you have, a three unit per color wash of Fresnels from the first and second electric (total of six units per color or twelve total). You have a L020 (or Rosco 20) and L161. I am guessing that you would find a darker blue more useful. Especially since you have a lighter blue in your front light. I personally like my blues as dark as possible, but obviously that makes color change an issue, and with not a ton of instruments, you will need something with more transmission. I don't love R80, or its lee close match, L079, I prefer something in the avenue of a R85, or a L119, but those will burn. In terms of the Amber, I don't like R20/L020 because I feel it is in between the R18 lighter ambers, and the Darker R22. If you are going for Orange, R23 is better, or even R21. R318 is nice for more tropical or peachy, but its not optimal for a rep plot. If it were my choice, I would go with R22 and R85 (or Lee-wise, L119 and L022) they also interact very nicely.
If the circuits are available, I would also suggest some of the Pars (you'll have to work out which lenses work best for you) as backlight from the 3rd electric, and the 2nd electric, if possible. the LESS steep the angle, the better. Steeper backlight tends o push the actors down into the space, which usually isn't desired. Experiment with this, but back light often works in open white, or if you are going for a modern theatre look, I sometimes will use CTB (Lee 201). Again, its up to you. A note about the Pars - the lenses can be spread either US/DS (or any where in between) because it is not a circular beam, it is in fact oval shaped. It might work to have 4 instruments just for the 3rd Electric in a XWFL lense spread running US/DS. Maybe just the WFL?
Other -With those 50's, you might consider a pipe end or high side position. This is usually placed on the far off stage end of the pipe. Putting a gobo in them will really animate the performers, and texture the space. Look here or here for some different gobos.
If you still have the instruments, consider adding 36's to the pipe end in a neutral color (L194, R51, R53), or in a warm/straw (R12, R06, L108). Again, the angel is a great effect, especially for dance and musical theatre.
Consider what I had said earlier regarding the Specials, and leave yourself a few instruments that are easily accessible (in the cove if it's easy to get to) for specials. remeber Curtain Warmers if you use a Curtain Pre or Post Show.
About the CYC, heed what Derek said. Good idea using the color infused diffusion, but you might find CYC silk more useful, and you may get better results. The Silk alone is R104, however the colored silk (super easy) in Red, Blue, Green respectively is R124, R125, and R126. It makes it super easy, and spreads beautifully. Experiment with running the grain in different directions, and let us know your results. My only other thought would be about green. I personally never use green, and I don't find it as useful in CYC's. Although from a technical standpoint, it covers the color spectrum better, consider using R127, which is the Amber CYC Silk. Its all preference, but again food for thought. What colors do you imagine yourself using? Do you currently ever what o you an amber? Do you use the green a lot??
It's great that you are taking the initiative to take control of the situation and trying to implement a better process, in order to achieve a better end product. Also, it's great that you are thinking of the next generation at your school. Too often, one student has all the technical knowledge, and when they leave, then school is "in the dark" for some years until another person who cares comes along.

Maybe there is some one on CB a little bit more local who can set you up/ recommend a local lighting/expendable dealer. I'm not familiar at all with the area.

Also, you mentioned 5 shows? What shows are you doing? Do you know yet? I'm always interested in what other schools are doing. There was a thread that keeps popping up about HS Shows, but I cant seem to find it. Maybe it was Sticky-ed?? (mods??)

Please Feel Free to ask any questions, or PM me. I'd be happy to talk to another HS student, and I've implemented rep plots at a few schools.

 

[MikeJ]

Ditch the R119 and go with R132. 132 is a little lighter diffusion than 119, and and is a bit better to get an smooth for a general wash, without loosing too much output, IMO.

 

[CameronLD]

Thank you for all of the responses so far It's great to get all the info/ideas.

Since some people asked for it, here is some more information about my theatre/what lighting instruments we have (the documents with this info are attached). The Current Lighting Fixtures document details the instruments we currently own that are either hung at this moment or in storage. The plot I have attached is an example of what our lights set up looked before out last show (Hairspray). The "Source Fours" (actually Coolbeams, I knew a lot less than I do now back last year) were aimed either haphazardly to cover the apron or upstage to cover frontlighting dark spots. Then the fresnels were pointed straight down for full toplighting. This plot also shows the duplicated circuits I talked about. And yes, circuit 66 has not been working for us as of late :/. Also, I do believe our dimmers are about 2400 watts.

About the shows we do - we do a fall musical, a winter play, and then a large spring musical. Next year we are doing Fools, The Drowsy Chaperone, and Mary Poppins (our director believes/hopes that the rights will be out by Spring next year). What I was saying, np, was that it would take the budget of my next 5 shows (Fools, Chaperone, Poppins, and the fall and winter show of my senior year) to see this plan through.

Yeah, I have thought of using the Amber Cyc light, but we use the green quite often to achieve a more realistic sky color with the blue, so I'm not sure how useful it would be for me to replace it. What effects can it achieve that a green/red orange can't?

From what I have seen, the Coolbeams simply aren't bright enough for our needs, and because they are mainly 19 and 26 degrees, they really don't seem to cut it. This is pretty much the same as for the fresnels. Part of the plan with setting up this warm and cool system is then implementing the leftover Coolbeams and fresnels as a multitude of specials.

I redid the math and it seems as if I could have 5 areas across each row, although that would take up every dimmer in the cats. What would be the optimum set up for my areas? Could 4 across the front and 3 across the back 2 work? What other combinations might work?

Thanks for all the help, and hope this information makes my plot easier to understand.

 

[Les]

Have you checked the bench focus on the Coolbeams (more commonly referred to as Strand SL's)? What lamps are you running? There shouldn't be a reason you can't get the intensity you need out of them. They're a reasonably modern fixture with good optics. Beam size is a different matter - I'm having trouble determining whether intensity or pool size (or both) is your issue regarding your SL's and fresnels.

FYI - you can diffuse the fresnels further but it will cut down on intensity.

 

[Scenemaster60]

First of all, I would echo what others have said here that you need a minimum of 5 areas across in front of the main curtain and MIGHT be able to squeak by with 4 areas behind it. Practicality may get in the way of creativity in this case!

If your SLs aren't bright enough, can you up-lamp to 750 watts? That instrument was designed to take a 750 watt lamp and if you put a GLD lamp in I can guarantee that you will notice the difference! These lamps list at under $20 each.

In terms of 65Q lamps I have used both the 575 watt BTH and the 750 watt BTP lamps in 65Qs. The 750 watt lamp has a SLIGHT edge in PUNCH, but I have chosen to use the 575 watt lamp since my inventory is primarily used for rentals and I can use 4 on a 20 AMP dimmer with minimal problems.

 

[derekleffew]

... If your SLs aren't bright enough, can you up-lamp to 750 watts? That instrument was designed to take a 750 watt lamp and if you put a GLD lamp in I can guarantee that you will notice the difference! These lamps list at under $20 each. ...

Pretty sure the 750W GLx lamp didn't exist when the SL Coolbeam series was designed, and I see nothing in Strand's documentation advocating or allowing a 750W lamp.

Well, you can, but you shouldn't. The SL is only rated for 575w, and keep in mind that 575 -> 750 is a fairly significant jump if the fixture isn't designed for it.

Aside from the potential of improperly sized wiring in the SL, the reflectors are also very thin. I have encountered many which have hairline cracks or are completely split in half (and this is just with 575w lamps). Unless you're willing to crack reflectors and have a very hard time locating replacements, I wouldn't go with 750w lamps. Lenses may also crack. The SL seems to have poor heat management as it is. Besides, anything higher than 575w will void the UL listing.

 

[techieman33]

Pretty sure the 750W GLx lamp didn't exist when the SL Coolbeam series was designed, and I see nothing in Strand's documentation advocating or allowing a 750W lamp.

The SL is not rated for 750w lamps, and with the glass reflectors and lack of replacement parts it's not worth the risk of over lamping them.

 

[Scenemaster60]

My bad. Never mind. Carry on without me…..

 

[jglodeklights]

While you cannot lamp up the SL's to 750w, it is possible they have been lamped with extended life series lamps. HX601's are only 3/4's as bright as an HX600 but last 5 times as long. HX-601's, just like HPL575WX (X for extended life) look like Poo, though. SL's are certainly bright enough for most applications when lamped and benched properly, and when you have enough to cover the area you need to cover.

 

[techieman33]

While you cannot lamp up the SL's to 750w, it is possible they have been lamped with extended life series lamps. HX601's are only 3/4's as bright as an HX600 but last 5 times as long. HX-601's, just like HPL575WX (X for extended life) look like Poo, though. SL's are certainly bright enough for most applications when lamped and benched properly, and when you have enough to cover the area you need to cover.

You really should be running GLC lamps, not FLK's.

 

[kicknargel]

I personally like an odd number of areas cross-stage, because if you need to isolate it will most like be at center, and it stinks to have the big moment at a seam between areas.

 

[CameronLD]

Hello. Here is an updated plot based on your suggestions!

Change list:
- Maximized usage of SL Coolbeams and fresnels that we already have (first two areas are covered by Coolbeams, toplighting is accomplished by 4 source fours per area/2 per warm or cool)
- Made frontlighting face each area at ~45 degree angles
- Created 5 areas across the apron, and 4 across the back two rows

Still to do:
- Figure out which gels I will use (hopefully use ones that we already have)
- Probably a lot more but I can't think of anything at the moment

Questions:
- Do you guys think the 65Q would perform much better with the 750w BTN, as opposed to the 500w BTL I currently use? Could that solve part of my problem?
- Comments?

 

[thatactorguy]

Real quick (before my alarm goes off in about five hours)- the new plot looks much better, good work! I admire your dedication. I'd lose the frost on the front lights and use it on the tops. And while this is more of a personal preference for me, I would dump the jaundice-inducing straw in favor of an R33, or at least R02. When you start focusing, have someone (or a few someones) move around the stage so you can see dark spots between areas. Probably not all of your fixtures will stay at hard focus- you might have to open up some of them to cover those "oops" areas and adjusts the light levels accordingly. I'm guessing you have about thirty feet from the front pipe to the apron? It's been a while since I've read a plot. Factor in the height, and those 19 and 26 dudes should make your areas just about the right size...