Control/Dimming Ion Price Quotes

[Drewdesign]

Resently my school is tring to get a new lighting console, so we have called a company called Stage Technologies and asked for an ETC Express (as you probaly know that ETC has stopped production of any typ of Express) so they recommended the Ion. My school is now on a halt. Stage Technologies didn't give us a responed on a price yet but I woud guess that its going to be high. Any ideas?

 

[jyenish]

Is the company Stage Technologies or Stage Technology?

I've done a lot of business with Stage Technology (based in Minneapolis Minnesota) over the years and I can say that they are a spot on company. Most of their business is with smaller venues like high schools or small colleges. They would rather have your continual business that try and get as much our of your purchase as they can.

If its Stage Technologies, I've never worked with them and can't say anything about their company.

That being said, if you take a quick look on the internet you can see were the basic prince of the ION is at. That will give you average prices to help you judge what you think you should pay for the console.

This year I was lucky enough to get an ION myself and can tell you its a great console. I've worked with Express and Expression and the ION is a more intuitive console, easier to program on and easier to trouble shoot.

In addition to that you can get away with shaving costs if you don't get the extras. The console is supposed to run two DVI monitors (a couple of hundred each) and it has a DVI splitter, but there is also a VGA port, I run one VGA monitor and I've now programed two book shows on the console. When I purchased my ION it was because my Colotran Innovator died the weekend before the tech of a show. That being said I wasn't able to get any fader wings (about two grand), DVI monitors or RFR (about two grand). If your tight on money get the console and the extras can come later. If you've got the cash I would buy the RFR before a fader wing. With group programing you can get away without using submasters. Granted subs are tacit and intuitive, but if your limited on personnel would rather be able to focus a show with two people than have submasters.

Good luck with your purchase, I hope I was helpful.

 

[lieperjp]

I believe the street prices mentioned in several threads for an ION with one fader wing is around $5,600.

Edit: I don't think that this price includes a touch-screen, which should cost between $200-400.

 

[soundlight]

I believe the street prices mentioned in several threads for an ION with two fader wings is around $5,600.

Edit: I don't think that this price includes a touch-screen, which should cost between $200-400.

Touchscreens are around 500/ea for the compatible ones (accutouch driver, 1280x1024) last time I checked - the ELO model is the compatible one, ETC sells it at a markup.

 

[gafftaper]

Prices vary depending on how large of a package you are buying at once, the volume purchasing power of the dealer you get the quote from, and your relationship with the dealer (how much of a deal are they willing to cut you based on previous experience). That said we've been hearing somewhere around $5500-$6000 for an Ion and one fader wing. Also Soundlight is right there is a very specific touch screen you have to purchase which costs around $500 (but touch screens are optional).

Tell us more about your theater's needs.
-Number of dimmers
-Do you have any DMX controlled intelligent lights, gobo rotators, color scrollers... anything like that? Is there a chance that you will be investing in some in the lifetime of this console?
-What's your budget?

Ion is an outstanding console, ETC is the best in the industry when it comes to customer service, and educationally it would be best for your students to have a chance to learn on an ION. However the reality of schools is there is often a set budget and if you can't afford it, that's it.

If ION is out of your price range let me suggest you look at the Strand Basic Palette. It should run around $4k maybe less, get a price quote. I own it's big brother the Classic Palette and it's an excellent console. You will loose very little in capabilities and save a nice chunk of money. The basic Palette only comes with the capacity for 100 channels but you can buy a 128 or 512 upgrade. Over time Strand has developed a poor reputation for customer service, however I have been VERY good over the last year with my new console. I think along with a couple of buy outs in the last few years there is a new attitude about customer service at Strand. Unfortunately You still won't get a 24/7 phone number like ETC has, but they have been very quick and attentive to my concerns.

If that's still too high then I would suggest you look at an EDI Bijou... it's very similar to an ETC Express and should cost you in the $3k range.

 

[Sayen]

I would be careful with Strand. I like their boards, and I own a damaged 520i and a Basic Palette. They are intuitive, and quick to train on, but if you have trouble service and technical support can be a real nightmare. If you have to send a board in for service, I've heard horror stories of repairs taking months.

The number of people junking Innovators for Ions seems to be growing. I'm working on the same package for my school, and I'm currently going through the technology department instead of my own funds. I explained that it's nothing more than a fancy computer, and will get more use and last longer than most desktops these days. We're in negotiations to split the cost.

On the subject of quotes, anyone know a company who always prices too high?

 

[icewolf08]

On the subject of quotes, anyone know a company who always prices too high?

I do (and I won't name them). However, good luck getting a bid back from them, I have been waiting months for a quote on a large system from them ($50K+) and they don't even return my phone calls about it. If you want to try your luck with them (they often appear to like dealing with schools or people they can swindle), PM or email me and I will tell you who. I would be willing to bet that if you get a quote back from them it will be one of the highest you get.

 

[jyenish]

I did a little searching for ETC's prices and I found the list price for the ION and its accessories.

ION 1024 - $6750

Fader Wings
2x20 - $2300
2x10 - $1200
1X20 - $1100

Net 3 RFR - $2500

These are the list prices that ETC recommends to its retailers, you should rarley pay these prices, but, if the price you're getting in quotes is close to this take that into account.

I will say that I got my ION for far cheaper, although there were special circumstances involved (someone had backed out on a deal with my retailer and they were stuck with it), however my retailer didn't loose money on me either.

One last thing to consider is that if you're not sure about a board ask the companies for a demo, ETC will send someone out to you for an hour or more demonstration of their product. Its well worth it and can help convince the suits if they're on the fence.

Thanks for listening to me, good luck with your upgrade.

 

[derekleffew]

...One last thing to consider is that if you're not sure about a board ask the companies for a demo, ETC will send someone out to you for an hour or more demonstration of their product. It's well worth it and can help convince the suits if they're on the fence. ...

You, or your institution, are buying something that costs as much as a car. No reason you cannot/should not take it for a "test drive." Any quality dealer or manufacturer should be willing to not only demo, but also let you use, a console for a short time.

Once you've investigated two or three manufacturers/dealers (and have the funding approval), contact them and let them know you're deciding among them and their competition. While results can and will vary, service before the sale can be an indication of service after the sale. Who's willing to go the extra mile for you? Who wants your business more? Price alone should not be your final criteria when choosing either a manufacturer or dealer.

 

[tomed101]

Fader Wings
2x20 - $2300
2x10 - $1200
1X20 - $1100

Just something to keep in mind: For the $100 more, always get the 2 x 10 fader wing rather than the 1 x 20. The 1 x 20 doesn't have the LCD for labeling etc and must be mount directly above the console which makes it easy to inadvertently hit a key on the console when reaching for a fader. Due to a screw-up with the quoting, we are stuck with a 1 x 20 when we really wanted the 2 x 10.

 

[gafftaper]

I would be careful with Strand. I like their boards, and I own a damaged 520i and a Basic Palette. They are intuitive, and quick to train on, but if you have trouble service and technical support can be a real nightmare. If you have to send a board in for service, I've heard horror stories of repairs taking months.

With the new PC based generation of console you shouldn't have any problems as there is nothing to delay repair. Consoles are no longer a mysterious complicated system that requires a specialized electriciaon to repair them. They are now simply a PC with a bunch of USB devices. On the Strand Palettes you just push two buttons to pop open up your desk and pull out the box on the inside which is just a PC. There is a bank of USB devices that plug into it. You send the CPU Box off to Strand, who have told me they can get you a new one in a day or two at the worst. While its gone you can plug those USB devices into any PC along with the magic USB key and your console will work like normal. I back up all my show files to a USB memory drive so the console's cpu can fry and I can be running in about 5 minutes on another computer. If you manage to destroy your go button or something goes bad with your submasters, no problem, it's just a USB device that pops out of the surface of the console. You can run the console from a mouse and keypad while Strand ships you a new top interface unit.

Sayen you should find two buttons on the left and right edge of your Basic Palette toward the front, push them at the same and the console flips open revealing it's very PC like inner self.

Does Ion have a similar "brain transplant" capabilities?

 

[Sayen]

Hmm, thanks - I hadn't looked that close at the Basic Palette yet, it's actually a temporary replacement while the 520i waits in limbo for supposed repairs at a supposed Strand authorized repair center...supposedly.

I don't know if the Ion shares quite the same functionality, but I am glad to see console manufacturer's taking advantage of technologies like USB. In theory, ETC could continue to release new control surfaces via USB, beyond just the fader wings, and everything is just building off of a base computer. Psst, ETC...how about a button display like the Eos has?

 

[sk8rsdad]

ETC[/autolink]...how about a button display like the Eos has?

ETC has to be fairly crisp in their market position for Ion vis-a-vis Eos or they will poach Eos sales in favor of the less expensive Ion.

 

[jmabray]

In some respects, yes. But as the ION is limited to 2000 channels/outputs, it isn't really going to be an issue for the EOS market.

Just my opinion....

 

[SteveB]

In some respects, yes. But as the ION is limited to 2000 channels/outputs, it isn't really going to be an issue for the EOS market.

Just my opinion....

I'm of the opinion that the HUGE differences between the Eos and Ion are:

1) The button layout of the Eos is far more complete. ETC had to remove hard buttons in order to keep the footprint of the Ios smaller.

2) Eos has built in touch screens, PLUS outboard touch or standard LCD's

3) Outputs.

4) Motorized faders on the Eos allow for a more complete control of cue playback then manual faders on wings, which on Ion are not yet fully up to speed in terms of features.

Steve B.