Lighting Console Basics

Finally, in talking with ETC today regarding questions with the software, when asked, they mentioned there will likely be an Ion "Jr" coming out, hopefully in late spring, but they are not allowed to say much yet. Perhaps less channels (100 is plenty right now for us) and a few less features, and $2K +/- less?? That might be just the ticket. Anybody else have any scoop or comment on that?

Yep, there is something to that rumor. ETC has long recognized and said that there was a void in their product line up with the discontinuation of the express line of consoles - particularly at a given price point. So anyone who has been paying attention, would have seen this coming. But that's about all I know as well at this point.
 
Putting on my stupid hat for a moment - If you Always 'Tracked' and never Recorded on the Express(ion) in what way would it's tracking capabilities be limited? I am aware of some minor deficiencies, but not of anything major. What am I missing?

IE would you mind going into the nitty-gritty ( or give me a pointer )

Thanks

It has been over three years since I have done serious programming on Expression, but if I remember correctly using the TRACK button really only works once you have cues written. Using TRACK when you have no subsequent cues really only functions as record as the consoles don't know where to track to. Since the console inherently thinks in cue-only it doesn't know to hold a channel at a level until you change it.

It was my understanding that that the TRACK record button will only track through cues where the level of a channel is the same. While this sounds the same as a tracking console, on a tracking console you can track changes only where there are no commands on a channel. On an Express or other cue-only consoles each cue puts a command on every channel in every cue, so in it's version of tracking if a channel was at the same level in every cue and you changed the level in cue 1 it would change in every cue. However on your tracking console channels only have commands where you put them, so you might record cue 6 first then go back and record 1-5. If you have channel 2 at 50 in all of the cues and then go back to cue one and change it, it will only track up to cue 6 where you recorded a hard command (even though it is the same level).

I don't remember offhand if Express(ion) has any form of block cue, and I am not going to go look it up at the moment. The differences are subtle enough to be frustrating, and different enough to make it not a tracking console.
 
...I don't remember offhand if Express(ion) has any form of block cue, and I am not going to go look it up at the moment. ...
Changing a cue's TYPE from the default "Xfade" to "AllFade" inserts a hard level value, or a hard-zero if a channel is unused, and thus acts as a blocking cue.

From the manual, Expression_3_v3.1_User_Manual.pdf:
Allfade
An allfade cue forces all unused channels to zero intensity when you press
[Go] and clears the other fader. Allfade is useful for forcing an end cue
when tracking channels. For more information on using allfade cues for
tracking, see Chapter 8 Track.

Another way to tell if a a console is inherently "preset-style" or "tracking" is how console memory is allocated. Expression specifically states
600 cues, 500 groups, 100 preset focus points, Effects with up to 100 steps each, 2,000 macros/regions.
The total number of cues available on a true tracking console will vary depending on how much information is (how many channel are) used in each cue. Some give this as a percentage of memory remaining; others don't tell the user anything.
 
I'm going to hop into the fray here...I think that, while last decades technology, the express line of consoles is still a valuable piece of equipment and its a mistake to end the line. Hardware upgrades could be found... And, while I'm driving an ION at this moment I know a ton of people that aren't going to approach an ION. The concept of a single cuestack, cue to cue, console is still valuable. In the movie and tv industry that I work in there are many that are just able to get the dmx/cue only boards and they aren't going to need or want an ION, no matter how simple. Middle schools, High schools, choir directors, band leaders, politicians assistants, Dance teachers (Dance teachers, people, think of the dance teachers, ); the chances of these people mastering the ION, simple as it is, is slim to none. And there is a hole in the sub 5000.00 price point. Limit it to 125 channels, or 96, but I don't think Joe community theatre, with 36 tti dimmers and lep is going to spring for the ION. An Ion would be his whole yearly budget.

If there wasn't a market for the analog console there wouldn't be any working now...and I think the same is true for the Express. Is elegance is in its simplicity.

rant over....sorry...I've kept that one in for a while
 
I don't know about anyone else, but I cut my teeth on the Expression/GBX type consoles and I am sad to see these type of consoles dying a slow death. Don't get me wrong I love my Hogs and Grand MA and Avos, but try to get a church to spring for a Road Hog or even for the Vista/Ion series. Then there are the lower level consoles (think the 100, 200, 300 series) that are basically turning into what we called DJ consoles back in the day. I miss the theater style cue stack, where I can program something and then just have a volunteer hit the go button when called.

*sigh*

Discontinuing the Express was the worst idea ever.

Mike
 
Probably so. I am thinking of picking up a couple of cheap Lee Colortran boards, but I cant find anyone with expertise in them. I used one 10 years ago, but I there are some things I can't seem to remember.

Mike
 
Hi everyone. In reading this thread, I thought it might be useful to try to bring a little more clarity to the concept of tracking versus track editing. To start with the easiest concept first.

Almost all desks support track editing functions, regardless of their underlying philosophy as a tracking or preset desk. On a tracking desk, by default, changes to cue data will go forward through the cue list until a move instruction (or block) in encountered. This behavior can be overridden by the [Q-Only/Track] button. If this is appended to a record/update in live, or a level change in blind, you are telling the desk to impact only the specific/selected cue. Most tracking desks have setup option to default the desk to Q-Only mode, wherein the [Q-Only/Track] button now forces a track through the cue list.

On a preset desk, the [Track] button forces the move forward, in a similar manner to a tracking desk. These are behaviors of "track editing," and I believe these ideas were covered earlier in the thread, so forgive me for restating....

The more fundamental difference is how cues get their content in the first place. This is truly what defines a desk as a tracking or preset desk. For the most part, if you happen to be cueing in sequence, you'll not really notice this too much - but you need to know about it.

The following is a pretty simplistic description, but its a place to start.

Let's assume that you have written cues 1 - 10. Those cues contain channels 1 - 10. You then add channel 20 to the stage live. You then do a selective store to create cue 4.5. (whatever the syntax of your desk, something along the lines of channel 20 record cue 4.5).

What will happen on a preset desk is that cue 4.5 will contain only channel 20. Any channels that were active in the previous cue (cue 4) will be driven to zero.

If you did that very same action on a tracking desk, cue 4.5 will contain channel 20 at its current level, and any values in cue 4 will track into cue 4.5.

Depending on the desk you use, you'll see the behavior exhibited in different ways. On a desk with a programmer, if you store a cue, you will get whatever is in the programmer, and any channels not in the programmer, but in use in the previous cue, will track in (unless you override that behavior).

On a tracking desk without a programmer, selectively storing a cue provides similar behavior to working with a programmer. Inserting new whole cues does a lot of cleanup for you automatically, to assure you get the look that you currently want, without moving a lot of non-intensity parameters if it isn't necessary to move them.

For anyone new to a tracking desk, its generally a good idea to work in blind spreadsheet mode for a bit (almost all desks have spreadsheet editing, where you can view a range of channels and a range of cues). Make changes to cues and watch what happens - add new cues and watch what happens. And then play around in live creating new cues between existing cues to make sure you understand how the data is being handled. Delete cues using both tracking and cue only to make sure you understand the impact on subsequent cues.

There are lots of overrides provided in desks to this basic behavior, but this is pretty much the underlying idea. So, in a nutshell, track editing is different from tracking. Tracking desks are very powerful and fast, but require a deeper understanding of the underlying data structures to be used safely. Preset desks have a simpler rule set, but may require more work for certain editing tasks.

I hope this helps.

Anne Valentino
Eos Product Line Manager
ETC
 
Thanks, Anne! While we have you here, care to illuminate:
1) The difference and similarities between a "tracking" and a "move fade" desk?
2) The difference and similarities between "track" and "trace"?
:)
3) How to determine the source of an intensity or parameter onstage? (What the h3ll is telling that light to do THAT?)
 
Like every thread on here we have strayed from the OP's question. To get back to that:
It sounds like you might have a lead on Strands which I think you should follow up on. I don't have experience with Strands personally, so I can't tell you anything that you can't read for yourself. However, if you do end up going ETC which you seem to have an incline toward, than here is my personal opinion.
The Ion is the perfect low end, yet quality desk. It has everything that the Express(ion) has plus the ability to hold its own in the current and future markets. Some people have talked about the old days of a single cue stack and having joe schmo come in and hit the "go" button. You can do that. But, with the Ion (and not the Express) you can also have up to 200 cue lists for when the need arrives. It is as small (or smaller depending on how many fader wings you add) as the Express, but it still has 4 encoder wheels to dramatically increase your speed and ease of parameter editing. With the Ion your base is 2 universes and 5000 channels, while the Express 24/48--that a lot of people are pushing--is limited to 96 channels. That's like, 3 (of course it depends on the fixtures) moving lights and leaves no room for your conventionals. There are lots more features like this that really put the Ion at the top of the pack for low end, quality desks. Everyone is complaining that discontinuing the Express series they are losing a market, but how much do you think the Expresses cost when they were new?! The only reason that they are cheaper than an Ion is because they are all out of date and used.
With all of that said, I also think that for your current needs a used Express(ion) would suffice. And, used of course would be cheaper. For your needs you could get an Express 125 and be covered, and that would be the cheapest Express(ion) out there.

Final thought:
The theatre I work at just bought a used Express 24/48 last year for $3,400. The base Ion is $5,000. For someone making a personal purchase that $1,600 difference is a BIG deal. But, if I were here when the company was purchasing, I would have fought tooth and nail for the Ion because of the expansion it offers for the future. If you are looking at using this desk for the next 10-15+ years, then I would have to recommend the Ion. The extra it would cost up front would pay for itself in the longevity of its usefulness.
 
Thanks, Anne! While we have you here, care to illuminate:
1) The difference and similarities between a "tracking" and a "move fade" desk?
2) The difference and similarities between "track" and "trace"?
:)
3) How to determine the source of an intensity or parameter onstage? (What the h3ll is telling that light to do THAT?)

Happy to do so. But a little history might be a good idea first. When the first computerized desks appeared on the market in the late 70's, basically they were computerized versions of analog systems already in use. Most of the world was using multi-scene preset desks of some type or another. And then you had a small group of users (mostly between the East and Hudson Rivers, south of 57th Street and North of 41st Street) who were using resistance dimmers (aka. piano boards).

Computerized versions of multi-scene preset desks yielded the following philosophies:
HTP - since a dimmer could have multiple "handles" and since multiple masters could be up at once, if a dimmer was receiving more than one instruction, it followed the Highest Level.
Preset - each cue was completely stand-alone. If you looked at the cue sheets that you wrote to run a multi-scene preset desk, each cue contained a value for every dimmer that you wanted on stage at that moment.
State: when a cue was replayed, then, the entire contents of that cue would be executed (since each cue was duplicated in its entirety, and since each active light had an actual move instruction - even if it was the same level as it had been in the previous cue.)

Computerized versions of piano boards yielded this:
LTP - since a dimmer only had one "handle", clearly the last level that you gave it is the one it would use.
Tracking - if you looked at the cue sheets that you wrote to run a piano board, only the things that were actually changing were written down. So, only the delta was "recorded".
Move fade - when a cue was replayed, only the move instructions were executed.

Tracking and Move Fade are closely aligned, since they were both ideas derived from piano boards - and they both have to do with moves versus tracked data.... But one has to do with the cue contents and editing (tracking), while the other has to do with what is executed.

In the Eos/Ion world (just like Obsession), you see "tracking" and "move fade" tied together as they would be on a piano board. Let's say in cue 1, channel 1 is at full. It tracks forward until cue 20, where it moves to 50%. You are in cue 5. If you manually set that channel to, say, 75%, it will remain at 75% until you execute cue 20.... where it recognizes a "move instruction." It will then fade to 50%. ... this is all "in sequence" ... if you take a cue out of sequence, the entire contents are (by default) replayed.

The same idea then, is used to manage cue list ownership. Who is telling a light what to do, and how is that ownership traded off? In Eos/Ion, that is also managed through moves. So, going back to our cue lists above. Cue List 1/Cue 1. Channel 1 at Full. Tracks forward to Cue 20, where it moves to 50%. You write Cue List 2/Cue 1, where you set channel 1 to 75%. Run cue 1/1. Light goes to full. Run cue 2/1, light goes to 75%. If you then hit the go button to run 1/2, the light will stay at 75% - because the value for that channel in that cue is a track.... and tracks are (by default) not executed on an in-sequence go. You can use assert functions to override that basic behavior.... that forces a tracked value to be replayed. Does that make sense?

Track versus trace. Track determines how changes should move FORWARD through the cue list. Track this change forward until you encounter a move instruction and stop. Trace determines how changes should move BACKWARD through the cue list. Trace this change back to the "source" of the move instruction. So, if you are in cue 5, adjust a light, realize it should be at that level through the whole scene... [Update] [Trace] [Enter]. The desk will look for the cue that was giving that light its current instruction and change the value there. The behavior moving forward through the cue list is based on track/cue only.

In Eos/Ion world, [About] is your friend. Leave it open. If you select a channel, it will give you the "properties" of that channel.... which includes the source of the current value (we are adding another way to access that information shortly.).

Hope this helps. Sorry if anyone was bored with the history part!!

:)
a
 
I'd Reccomend playing around with a ETC Express 24/48. It has 96 Chans, which should be more than enough for what your doing now. It can have 24 submasters x 10 pages for a total of 240 subs. The board's software is basic and easy to learn. It handles color scrollers and moving lights, but it's limited in those areas. You can only choose color scroller color by percentage not by a visual color, and same with moving lights. I wouln't put more than 2 or 4 movers on an Express (I don't think you could even fit 4 on an express 24/48 if you have other conventional) But overall, the express boards are good for community theaters and high schools. Look at the free offline edition available at etcconnect.com
 
I enjoyed the history lesson.

I hadn't realized that HTP and LTP were related in the same manner as Preset and Tracking, or that piano boards were in (professional) use as late as they were .. but history makes sense now. Thanks!
 
We old folk are useful for something :) !

And resistance dimmers were actually in fairly broad use throughout America.... we sort of joke about them being specific to the NY market. By the mid-to-late 70s, they'd largely been replaced in the professional market. But the University that I went to for undergraduate work had resistance dimmers in the large theatre and a multi-scene preset in the small theatre.

a
 
We had a piano board at the University I went to. We had to run it as part of our mid-term in lighting technology.

Mike
 
It would almost appear as though Broadway shops Four Star, BASH, and Vanco never purchased anything new between 1950 and 1980.:)

I know one university that had a large autotransformer installation in its blackbox until the Lightboard M, in 1985. On the mainstage, a Light Palette replaced a sixty-dimmer, five-scene preset in 1980. Funny, we didn't seem to have nearly as many issues with this tracking vs. preset-style business back then.
 
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Happy to do so. But a little history might be a good idea first. When the first computerized desks appeared on the market in the late 70's, basically they were computerized versions of analog systems already in use. Most of the world was using multi-scene preset desks of some type or another. And then you had a small group of users (mostly between the East and Hudson Rivers, south of 57th Street and North of 41st Street) who were using resistance dimmers (aka. piano boards).

Computerized versions of multi-scene preset desks yielded the following philosophies:
HTP - since a dimmer could have multiple "handles" and since multiple masters could be up at once, if a dimmer was receiving more than one instruction, it followed the Highest Level.
Preset - each cue was completely stand-alone. If you looked at the cue sheets that you wrote to run a multi-scene preset desk, each cue contained a value for every dimmer that you wanted on stage at that moment.
State: when a cue was replayed, then, the entire contents of that cue would be executed (since each cue was duplicated in its entirety, and since each active light had an actual move instruction - even if it was the same level as it had been in the previous cue.)

Computerized versions of piano boards yielded this:
LTP - since a dimmer only had one "handle", clearly the last level that you gave it is the one it would use.
Tracking - if you looked at the cue sheets that you wrote to run a piano board, only the things that were actually changing were written down. So, only the delta was "recorded".
Move fade - when a cue was replayed, only the move instructions were executed.

Tracking and Move Fade are closely aligned, since they were both ideas derived from piano boards - and they both have to do with moves versus tracked data.... But one has to do with the cue contents and editing (tracking), while the other has to do with what is executed.

In the Eos/Ion world (just like Obsession), you see "tracking" and "move fade" tied together as they would be on a piano board. Let's say in cue 1, channel 1 is at full. It tracks forward until cue 20, where it moves to 50%. You are in cue 5. If you manually set that channel to, say, 75%, it will remain at 75% until you execute cue 20.... where it recognizes a "move instruction." It will then fade to 50%. ... this is all "in sequence" ... if you take a cue out of sequence, the entire contents are (by default) replayed.

The same idea then, is used to manage cue list ownership. Who is telling a light what to do, and how is that ownership traded off? In Eos/Ion, that is also managed through moves. So, going back to our cue lists above. Cue List 1/Cue 1. Channel 1 at Full. Tracks forward to Cue 20, where it moves to 50%. You write Cue List 2/Cue 1, where you set channel 1 to 75%. Run cue 1/1. Light goes to full. Run cue 2/1, light goes to 75%. If you then hit the go button to run 1/2, the light will stay at 75% - because the value for that channel in that cue is a track.... and tracks are (by default) not executed on an in-sequence go. You can use assert functions to override that basic behavior.... that forces a tracked value to be replayed. Does that make sense?

Track versus trace. Track determines how changes should move FORWARD through the cue list. Track this change forward until you encounter a move instruction and stop. Trace determines how changes should move BACKWARD through the cue list. Trace this change back to the "source" of the move instruction. So, if you are in cue 5, adjust a light, realize it should be at that level through the whole scene... [Update] [Trace] [Enter]. The desk will look for the cue that was giving that light its current instruction and change the value there. The behavior moving forward through the cue list is based on track/cue only.

In Eos/Ion world, [About] is your friend. Leave it open. If you select a channel, it will give you the "properties" of that channel.... which includes the source of the current value (we are adding another way to access that information shortly.).

Hope this helps. Sorry if anyone was bored with the history part!!

:)
a

I'm having fun reading these posts...

If anyone knows more about console design philosophy than you, I'd be shocked.

Want to write a book?

XOXO

ST
 
Might I suggest that we add Anne's posts to the WIKI on tracking?
 
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