New light board for a high school
- Thread starteratm999
- Start date
You do not need touch screens to work with the Ion. A local school near me just got a new Ion this year upgrading from an old NSI MC 7532. They bought two (non-touch screen) 19" LCD monitors with the board as well as one fader wing. They also hooked up a mouse to the board. After a little while of using it I found that I didn't miss the touch screen capability of the Eos as much as I would have expected. An interesting point is that after just a couple days of training, the students there knew enough about the Ion to program and run a show fairly well. Even though the two boards were very different, they still managed to pick it up quickly. Also, the fader wing is invaluable as it is great for one-offs and when less experienced people are at the board.
I found a comparison does between the consoles, but it was made by Strand so it is obviously biased. One thing that stands out to me is the vast difference in channels between the Palettes and the Ion. The palettes come with only 100 channels to start with, while the Ion have over 1000. Is there something that I'm missing here?
Code:
Preset Palette-Sub Palette - Ion Compare
Preset Sub ETC
Feature Palette Palette Ion
Yes Yes Yes
Graphical User Interface
100 Standard up to 1500 250 or 500 standard up to 1500 1000-1500-2000
Channels
12288 12288 1000-1500-2000
Network DMX Outputs
2 2 2
Local DMX outputs
Unlimited Unlimited 10000
Cues
Tracking or Preset Tracking or Preset Tracking or preset
Cue control
Unlimited Unlimited 999
Cue Lists
Unlimited Unlimited 4X1000
Groups
Hard disk capacity 1000
Hard disk capacity
Preset Focus Groups
3000 3000 1000
Macros
single or two scene single scene None
Preset operation
24/48 or 48/96 128 None
Manual Faders
16 or 32 128 None std. Optional plug in modules
Submasters
Unlimited Unlimited 300
Virtual subs
Pile on, Inhibit, Exclusive Pile on or inhibitive if installed
Pile on, Inhibit, Exclusive
Sub Functions
Per channel and per att. Per channel and per att. 200
Simultaneous Fades
Intel Centrino Intel Centrino ??
Processor
Yes 40 GB Yes 40 GB Yes
Hard Disk
Front and rear Rear and Top
Front and rear
USB support
Yes Yes Yes
Full Tracking Back up
5 5 4
Multi console
4 4 1
Handheld remotes
Yes Yes Yes
Network HHR
Yes Yes Yes
Wireless Remote
Yes Yes No
Full Function Remote
Yes Yes No
Remote interface on any notebook - PC
Yes Yes Yes
Remote multi DMX
Yes Yes No
Network printing
Yes Yes Yes
File Server support
Mouse encoder 4 Encoders
Mouse encoder
Attribute controls
Mouse Mouse Must use two of 4 encoders
X-Y axis control
Yes Yes None
Integrated mouse for GUI control
128 128 99
Attributes per fixture
Up to 1500 Up to 1500 Up to capacity
Attribute channels
200 200 99
Fixture libraries
Yes Yes Limited
Abstract Moving Light Programming
Yes Yes No
Dynamic color and attribute displays
Yes including filter match Yes including filter match Yes
Color picking
Yes Yes No
WYSIWYG autofocus support
Yes Yes Yes
16 bit DMX
Yes Yes Yes
16 Bit programming
Unlimited Unlimited 32
Profiles
Unlimited Unlimited 999
Effects
Yes Yes No
Moving Light Effects
None – parallels console
Yes Yes
Discrete Remote Video
Up to 2* Up to 2* Up to 2 **
Local Video
Yes Yes Yes
Dynamic Channel Display
Integral Help Yes Yes Yes
Full Architectural control interface Yes Yes No
* Available on Palette II
** A single DVI video connector is supplied that requires a special video splitter for two displaysjmabray
Active Member
I gotta tell ya, That chart is awful hard to read as it is. Can you provide a link?
From what I can tell, it's not entirely true either. For instance, Moving light effects - the Ion definitely has those. 16 standart built in, but you can create hundreds more of your own. Color Picking - ION also has Color filter matching... Remote Interface on any notebook pc - ION has this as well....
I know that the Strand consoles, are good consoles. I have nothing against them at all. What I really dislike is the out right half-truths that are told in comparison charts like this. Lets all tell it like it is, and then let the end user decide on the whole package.
From what I can tell, it's not entirely true either. For instance, Moving light effects - the Ion definitely has those. 16 standart built in, but you can create hundreds more of your own. Color Picking - ION also has Color filter matching... Remote Interface on any notebook pc - ION has this as well....
I know that the Strand consoles, are good consoles. I have nothing against them at all. What I really dislike is the out right half-truths that are told in comparison charts like this. Lets all tell it like it is, and then let the end user decide on the whole package.
Both consoles have similar philosophies, and both consoles are lacking in their support of non-dimmer devices. Factor in the Express's popularity (best selling console ever made), reliability, and ETC's 24/7/365 phone support (plus the fact that they have and will, continue to support every console they've ever made, including maintaining "loaner" stock); and there is no contest.
See the Collaborative Article: Best Dealers From Whom To Purchase Equipment - ControlBooth. The purchase price should not be the sole criteria in this decision.
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/185594/Preset Palette- sub Palette - Ion.pdf I got it in an e-mail from Strand, so I don't know the original address, I just put it in dropbox hosting.
I have a Strand Classic Palette and I've seen demos of Ion. To me it's difficult to recommend one over the other. They are extremely similar in how they operate, what you can do with them, and the ease of learning. There is very little you can do on one that you can't do on the other. If one console is lagging behind on a feature it's easy to simply add it into the next software update.
Differences:
Strand's Horizon software has a different approach than ETC's that creates a few interesting differences. It translates equipment settings into normal language. So you control a gobo's rotation in terms of RPM, clockwise, counterclockwise. Pan and tilt are in degrees. Color is in terms of the actual color, not dmx values of CMY. If you have a Mac 600 that goes down and you swap in a Studio Color 575 it thinks in terms of color not dmx values so it automatically adjusts to give you the same color (anybody know if Ion can do that). If you are using a moving light and want it to move from point A to B it automatically adjusts the path so it moves in a straight line instead of an arc.
The Ion gives you encoder wheels which some consider a MAJOR advantage for using movers. However the Strand makes up for it nicely giving you multiple alternatives such as up and down arrows, a variety of preset values, mouse wheel, you can use the mouse for Pan and tilt and "drive" the mover to the position you want. Also that real world terminology of the Horizon software seems to me to make it easier to make adjustments you want. I'm sure if you were using a lot of movers it would get old to not have encoders but if you are just occasionally using dmx toys it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. However, if you are using a lot of movers you should be buying a Hog or Ma.
In general you will find yourself using the mouse and keyboard a lot with the Strand software. With Ion you'll find very little reason to leave the console. I have the feeling if you were doing some serious high speed programming the Ion would be faster because of this.
Strand only has one console in the Pallet line that comes with encoders and I believe it's more expensive than an Ion.
With the Palette you have a wide variety of interfaces to choose from, all using the same software and it's cheaper to get started with an entry level model around $4k. Remember most of us really need that wing pane on Ion, People around CB say you are looking at a minimum of $6k for an Ion and one wing panel.
Speaking of the wing panel. This can be a huge advantage or an annoying feature depending on your use. If you are in a rental shop it's awesome because you can rent someone a console with all the submasters they want. If you are just a small theater I find it annoying that you've got to pay an extra $1k to have such a basic feature as 16 subs. You can run them all over the place. I've heard of people setting up wing panels in multiple locations to control the console... which is pretty slick. The expansion ability is very cool.
ETC has been the industry standard in lighting instruments and consoles for 15 years or so. Purchasing an Ion is "following the heard" and there is great safety in numbers. Even though ETC has quit making express consoles there will be people with parts and service available for MANY years. The same will be true of Ion down the road.
ETC has the best reputation in the industry for customer service, but as I've said Strand has worked very hard to make sure all my problems are taken care of over the last year. I've heard complaints from the past but I've got nothing but good things to say about Strand. ETC offers a 24/7 tech support by phone. Strand offers M-F business hours support.
Remote focus units. My Strand has a PDA that connects to the console via a wireless router. I can run and record cues or subs, look at levels, turn instruments on and off as singles or groups. It's an outstanding interface. It's also an expensive interface. ETC's approach is no bells and whistles. They tell you to head to the store and buy a 900mhz cordless phone. You can turn on and off channels buy dialing them on the phone. Nothing fancy but it works for about $15. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
Don't leave it to us to tell you which to buy. Both consoles are excellent. Contact your local dealer and get a demo of both consoles to see which one you like best.
Price. No two people reading this will get the exact same price. The price you pay depends on two things:
1) How low of a profit the dealer is willing to take on the purchase. If you are buying a lot of things at once or you are a regular customer and spend lots of money with that dealer, they will be willing to lower the percentage of profit on your purchase. When I was a high school teacher I made VERY good friends with the custom sales guy at the local theater supply. He liked me and gave me the same rate as the big opera house in town got... even though I only spent a few hundred dollars a year there. BE NICE TO Your dealer!
2) Dealers pay different rates to the manufacturers based on how many units they sell. So a small dealer often can't compete with the prices of a large one.
Last year I purchased about $125k of new equipment for my new theater. I received prices that I will never see again because I was buying so much at once. So while we can recommend a dealer or two for you to contact you won't get the same price I do.
Also don't underestimate the importance of a relationship with your local dealer. On Saturday night with a half hour before house opens the local dealer can fly in and save the show by bringing you the part you need. A national dealer can't do that.
ETC's philosophy is to start you out with a high channel count. Strand starts out low and sells 100 and 512 channel upgrades.
I think that chart's old. I also think they are being very careful about how they word things. If I remember right the color filter match wasn't available on the original Ion software but was added very soon after the console came out. As for the remote interface, don't you have to have to have some sort of a dongle or USB key to use the remote pc feature with Ion? I believe that dongle is free by the way. With Strand you don't need a dongle. So technically they are correct as ANY computer can log onto their network but Etc requires you to have the dongle. Sounds like the chart was written by a sleazy politician.
Differences:
Strand's Horizon software has a different approach than ETC's that creates a few interesting differences. It translates equipment settings into normal language. So you control a gobo's rotation in terms of RPM, clockwise, counterclockwise. Pan and tilt are in degrees. Color is in terms of the actual color, not dmx values of CMY. If you have a Mac 600 that goes down and you swap in a Studio Color 575 it thinks in terms of color not dmx values so it automatically adjusts to give you the same color (anybody know if Ion can do that). If you are using a moving light and want it to move from point A to B it automatically adjusts the path so it moves in a straight line instead of an arc.
The Ion gives you encoder wheels which some consider a MAJOR advantage for using movers. However the Strand makes up for it nicely giving you multiple alternatives such as up and down arrows, a variety of preset values, mouse wheel, you can use the mouse for Pan and tilt and "drive" the mover to the position you want. Also that real world terminology of the Horizon software seems to me to make it easier to make adjustments you want. I'm sure if you were using a lot of movers it would get old to not have encoders but if you are just occasionally using dmx toys it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. However, if you are using a lot of movers you should be buying a Hog or Ma.
In general you will find yourself using the mouse and keyboard a lot with the Strand software. With Ion you'll find very little reason to leave the console. I have the feeling if you were doing some serious high speed programming the Ion would be faster because of this.
Strand only has one console in the Pallet line that comes with encoders and I believe it's more expensive than an Ion.
With the Palette you have a wide variety of interfaces to choose from, all using the same software and it's cheaper to get started with an entry level model around $4k. Remember most of us really need that wing pane on Ion, People around CB say you are looking at a minimum of $6k for an Ion and one wing panel.
Speaking of the wing panel. This can be a huge advantage or an annoying feature depending on your use. If you are in a rental shop it's awesome because you can rent someone a console with all the submasters they want. If you are just a small theater I find it annoying that you've got to pay an extra $1k to have such a basic feature as 16 subs. You can run them all over the place. I've heard of people setting up wing panels in multiple locations to control the console... which is pretty slick. The expansion ability is very cool.
ETC has been the industry standard in lighting instruments and consoles for 15 years or so. Purchasing an Ion is "following the heard" and there is great safety in numbers. Even though ETC has quit making express consoles there will be people with parts and service available for MANY years. The same will be true of Ion down the road.
ETC has the best reputation in the industry for customer service, but as I've said Strand has worked very hard to make sure all my problems are taken care of over the last year. I've heard complaints from the past but I've got nothing but good things to say about Strand. ETC offers a 24/7 tech support by phone. Strand offers M-F business hours support.
Remote focus units. My Strand has a PDA that connects to the console via a wireless router. I can run and record cues or subs, look at levels, turn instruments on and off as singles or groups. It's an outstanding interface. It's also an expensive interface. ETC's approach is no bells and whistles. They tell you to head to the store and buy a 900mhz cordless phone. You can turn on and off channels buy dialing them on the phone. Nothing fancy but it works for about $15. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
Don't leave it to us to tell you which to buy. Both consoles are excellent. Contact your local dealer and get a demo of both consoles to see which one you like best.
Price. No two people reading this will get the exact same price. The price you pay depends on two things:
1) How low of a profit the dealer is willing to take on the purchase. If you are buying a lot of things at once or you are a regular customer and spend lots of money with that dealer, they will be willing to lower the percentage of profit on your purchase. When I was a high school teacher I made VERY good friends with the custom sales guy at the local theater supply. He liked me and gave me the same rate as the big opera house in town got... even though I only spent a few hundred dollars a year there. BE NICE TO Your dealer!
2) Dealers pay different rates to the manufacturers based on how many units they sell. So a small dealer often can't compete with the prices of a large one.
Last year I purchased about $125k of new equipment for my new theater. I received prices that I will never see again because I was buying so much at once. So while we can recommend a dealer or two for you to contact you won't get the same price I do.
Also don't underestimate the importance of a relationship with your local dealer. On Saturday night with a half hour before house opens the local dealer can fly in and save the show by bringing you the part you need. A national dealer can't do that.
ETC's philosophy is to start you out with a high channel count. Strand starts out low and sells 100 and 512 channel upgrades.
I think that chart's old. I also think they are being very careful about how they word things. If I remember right the color filter match wasn't available on the original Ion software but was added very soon after the console came out. As for the remote interface, don't you have to have to have some sort of a dongle or USB key to use the remote pc feature with Ion? I believe that dongle is free by the way. With Strand you don't need a dongle. So technically they are correct as ANY computer can log onto their network but Etc requires you to have the dongle. Sounds like the chart was written by a sleazy politician.
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Not true. Net3 Radio Focus Remote (RFR). A cordless phone remote will be an alternative, but I don't think it's been implemented yet for the Eos/Ion, although it has for the Congo/Jr.
Thanks very much gafftaper for your informative post. I just have two questions which came up. First, someone told me that the preset Palette does not use a keyboard, while the other Palettes do. Is this true, and if so, why? Second, what is the difference between the Palettes and the Palette II's which I see just coming out? Is it just software bells and whistles which I could get later if I need, or is there some signifficant hardware change? Thanks again for all the info. I'm going to try to narrow down the Strand choices to one or at the most two, then ask for an on-site demo side-by-side with the Ion. That may not be for a month or two, but once it happens I will post reviews of what I have seen back here.
All of the Palette series consoles are capable of using a keyboard. Whoever told you that you don't need it for the Preset Palette was probably referring to the fact that it has lots of sliders so you can bring channels up manually instead of keying them in. This may be a useful feature, but I still recommend that you get used to the keypad entry as it is faster and more efficient. All of the Palettes have an onboard keypad and support USB keyboards.
As for the Palette IIs, is is just the new version of the hardware. All of the software is the same across the line. If you end up wanting a Strand console, you are probably better off getting whatever is newer, it will last you the longest, however the older (by only a year) model runs the same software.
As far as demos, that is a good idea. You may find it politically impossible to actually get both ETC and Strand consoles in at the same time. They each want you to buy theirs, and it may turn into a battle between reps to push you one way or the other. In fact, it is probably for the best to not tell your Strand source that you are looking at ETC, and vise-versa. You really want to get as unbiased a demo as possible.
What he said.
Also it may be that the dealer you want to purchase from doesn't carry both ETC and Strand. When you ask for the Strand demo you probably won't be able to get the specific model you are asking about. Never fear they all work exactly the same in terms of software, keypad, and keyboard. They just have different sliders configurations.
Also it may be that the dealer you want to purchase from doesn't carry both ETC and Strand. When you ask for the Strand demo you probably won't be able to get the specific model you are asking about. Never fear they all work exactly the same in terms of software, keypad, and keyboard. They just have different sliders configurations.
Of the consoles that we have been looking at, the preset Palette II is the only one have has manual channel faders, the others only have subs. Do you guys think that keeping manual faders for a high school is extremely important, or do know of high schools which solely use keypad entry? Again, I am comfortable with both, but I need to make sure that future students will be as well.
Edit: I am still looking for info on the original (not the Johnson) retrofit kit for the Strand CD80 rack.
Edit: I am still looking for info on the original (not the Johnson) retrofit kit for the Strand CD80 rack.
Esoteric
Well-Known Member
I will get you info on an original retrofit kit after I get the pics tomorrow.
I would say that no, it makes no difference. You can program the subs for easy use for people who don't want to mess with the keypad (and label them stage wash, house lights, etc), and then set up a different set of subs for your shows. Your students will learn what you teach them. Unless you teach in an exceptional district, the first time they are on a computer lighting console is in high school. They will learn what they are taught. How many kids are not familiar with a keypad from their computer or a ten key? In fact I think it would be more intuitive for them than sliding something up and down (which is completely unnatural unless you are making toast) and then having to use the console proper to save cues. Why have them leave the keypad at all?
Mike
That is exactly what I was looking for, thank you very much!
NickJones
Active Member
Hi, had the same problem, the Strand Pre-set pallet has no ML compatability (kindof does if you want to get super technical but its another story) Im a HS techie too, and pre-set boards are not great because you just can't expand them. You can download the OS (operating system) for the ION, its called EOS and its really good, simmilar to the strand, again, depending on how much you know a sub-master bank would be good, but i would recomend getting a remote focus remote first. The ION is easy to use for simple conventuanal fixtures, but is hugeley flexible when it comes to ML's, LED's ect. Really good consoles. And is networkable, meaning you can sit anywhere and controll the lights. Usefull for when teachers start to annoy you, if they walk into the booth, to find no one there, but the lighting going as planned. As for new heads of drama coming in and your budget, schools and tech-money is horrible! Audio gets all this money and ..... Don't get me started. Good luck, and you can download the EOS software for your computer here. http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs_downloads/console/Eos-Console-v143.zip This shoud give you a chance to muck about and start to understand the sytax, if you need any more help, send me a PM, might be able to help you.
Good luck
Nick Jones
Good luck
Nick Jones
And actually in response to some requests from smaller programs ETC has now included an initial programing of subs 1-300 as channels 1-300 so one COULD use enough fader panels to fully replicate the function of a preset style board. Why you would really want to is another story
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