Channel levels by slider or keypad entry?

[Esoteric]

I am with you Xander. But you do see the issue. How far back do we go? Should I give students experience with Salt Water dimmers?

But yeah, if a school has a nice console for shows would it hurt to pick up a Scene Setter or something and have the kids do 4 or 5 unit "student shows" for educational purposes? I don't think so. In fact in my time at the FAA that is what I did with my old DJ console.

Mike

 

[theatretechguy]

It really comes down to what you're using the console for. If you're programming everything ahead of time, keypad is fine for that. If you're busking simply because its silly to program a sequence of cues for each and every event in your space, having those subs (and even some individual channel faders) is nice.

Subs are also quicker if you're using things like Seachangers where you are mixing color on the fly and have to adjust 4 subs together. Doing it on the keypad is much more time consuming.

 

[Esoteric]

It really comes down to what you're using the console for. If you're programming everything ahead of time, keypad is fine for that. If you're busking simply because its silly to program a sequence of cues for each and every event in your space, having those subs (and even some individual channel faders) is nice.

Subs are also quicker if you're using things like Seachangers where you are mixing color on the fly and have to adjust 4 subs together. Doing it on the keypad is much more time consuming.

I am with you. For busking I like my sliders. Of course I like them to be flexible (think Grand MA) but I love them. There is no question they are necessary in that situation.

But in the situation we are talking about, they are pretty much useless. As far as effects, why not just have three encoder wheels instead of a bank of faders?

Mike

 

[atm999]

From reading these posts (which were originally in answer to my question about what new board to get for a high school) it seems that we uses channels in the way tham most of you use subs. For example, channel 1 (for us) is white light, downstage right, 2 is downstage center, 12 is red cycs, etc. Do you guys have just one light per channel? What is a basic channel/sub/group setup for you?

 

[theatretechguy]

If its a high channel count, I'll usually group things into subs (all my blue cycs, for instance). Usually when I'm dealing with higher channel counts I'm in a theater I'm not familiar with so programming with individual channels is a time consuming process. I will only use channels when I've run out of subs and usually just for "specials" or other practicals that don't get used much in the show.

My big thing is transitions. The transitions between cues has to be smooth, and in some cases, almost subliminal. If you're doing it all via the keypad, you're not using your EYES on the stage and are merely going by "numbers". I like the physical use of sliders because I can adjust while I'm looking at the stage.

 

[atm999]

If its a high channel count, I'll usually group things into subs (all my blue cycs, for instance). Usually when I'm dealing with higher channel counts I'm in a theater I'm not familiar with so programming with individual channels is a time consuming process. I will only use channels when I've run out of subs and usually just for "specials" or other practicals that don't get used much in the show.

So does that mean your dimmers:channels are 1:1?Perhaps I did not make it clear in my other post, but ours are not. We have dimmers grouped into channels based on what they DO. Is that how you use your subs?

 

[theatretechguy]

My patch is 1:1 ... I probably am using subs the same way you're using channels. Unless it's neccessary by low channel count, I always want a 1:1 patch.

 

[atm999]

My patch is 1:1 ... I probably am using subs the same way you're using channels. Unless it's neccessary by low channel count, I always want a 1:1 patch.

That explains a lot! I was assuming that everyone was using channels the way that I use them, and was therefore hesitant to get a board without manual channel faders. *Face-palm!* Now the ETC Ion is looking much more attractive!

 

[theatretechguy]

Certainly not everyone uses 1:1, that's just my own personal preference. You need to do what you're comfortable doing.

 

[atm999]

I made a poll here: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/10703-1-1-patch-do-you-use.html to find out what others use, so as not to clog up this thread.

 

[xander]

First of all, I am slightly confused. When you say "1:1 patch" you mean one dimmer per channel? Because when I say "1:1 patch" I think of dimmer 1 patched to channel 1, dimmer 2 patched to dimmer 2, etc. because that terminology has been hijacked by desk manufacturers to mean the latter.

Second of all, assuming you mean the first, every designer is going to do one dimmer per channel--because that gives you greatest amount of control--unless there are some extenuating circumstances: you are only using more than one dimmer because of a power issue AND the instruments would NEVER be used separately, ie cyc lights; or you have more dimmers than you have channels, but if this were the case I would never design there again until they buy a new desk (unless you were using a LOT of DMX controlled devices--that were rented so it was not the norm--and that is where the extra "dimmers" were coming from?); or you have a LOT more dimmers than you are going to use so you just put each instrument in its own dimmer rather than 2-fering in the air.

Either way, I am not really sure what effect it has on whether you use sliders or keypad?

-Tim

 

[Esoteric]

If its a high channel count, I'll usually group things into subs (all my blue cycs, for instance). Usually when I'm dealing with higher channel counts I'm in a theater I'm not familiar with so programming with individual channels is a time consuming process. I will only use channels when I've run out of subs and usually just for "specials" or other practicals that don't get used much in the show.

My big thing is transitions. The transitions between cues has to be smooth, and in some cases, almost subliminal. If you're doing it all via the keypad, you're not using your EYES on the stage and are merely going by "numbers". I like the physical use of sliders because I can adjust while I'm looking at the stage.

Why would you be looking at the keypad?

Mike

 

[atm999]

First of all, I am slightly confused. When you say "1:1 patch" you mean one dimmer per channel? Because when I say "1:1 patch" I think of dimmer 1 patched to channel 1, dimmer 2 patched to dimmer 2, etc. because that terminology has been hijacked by desk manufacturers to mean the latter.

Second of all, assuming you mean the first, every designer is going to do one dimmer per channel--because that gives you greatest amount of control--unless there are some extenuating circumstances: you are only using more than one dimmer because of a power issue AND the instruments would NEVER be used separately, ie cyc lights; or you have more dimmers than you have channels, but if this were the case I would never design there again until they buy a new desk (unless you were using a LOT of DMX controlled devices--that were rented so it was not the norm--and that is where the extra "dimmers" were coming from?); or you have a LOT more dimmers than you are going to use so you just put each instrument in its own dimmer rather than 2-fering in the air.

Either way, I am not really sure what effect it has on whether you use sliders or keypad?

-Tim

The reason that I asked was because I was tought to put all dimmers that light the same area on one channel (i.e. DSR white is channel one, DSC white is channel 2, DSL white is channel 3, etc). From listening to your conversations, this seems to be how you guys use your subs.

 

[theatretechguy]

Why would you be looking at the keypad?

Mike

I wouldn't be looking at a keypad, but I'd be tied up in paperwork typing in numbers when I could just as easily use the sliders. That's not to say I don't use the keypad/touchpad, its just a personal preference I guess.

 

[theatretechguy]

First of all, I am slightly confused. When you say "1:1 patch" you mean one dimmer per channel? Because when I say "1:1 patch" I think of dimmer 1 patched to channel 1, dimmer 2 patched to dimmer 2, etc. because that terminology has been hijacked by desk manufacturers to mean the latter.

When I use the term 1:1 its dimmer 1 is patched to channel 1 and so on. It seems this arguement (slider vs keys) is subjective, so I don't understand why people ask what your preference is, and then ask WHY you prefer it that way. If people prefer to program their shows on a Mantrix 2 and that works for them, more power to them.

 

[Esoteric]

When I use the term 1:1 its dimmer 1 is patched to channel 1 and so on. It seems this arguement (slider vs keys) is subjective, so I don't understand why people ask what your preference is, and then ask WHY you prefer it that way. If people prefer to program their shows on a Mantrix 2 and that works for them, more power to them.

Yeah, you really need to specify if you are talking about hard patch or soft patch. Although I have found that most houses now are permenantly hard patched 1:1. We had a theater at UT that was not, it had 200+ circuits and 128 7.2kW Klegal Dimmers. We had an old phone booth patch bay. That was a fun space to ME in let me tell you .

Mike

 

[derekleffew]

...with Kliegal strips, ...

...and 128 7.2kW Klegal Dimmers. ...

I let the first one slide, but now that you've made the same mistake twice, in two different ways, it's off to http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...pelling-theatrical-brands-products-terms.html for you! Respect the brothers John and Anton. (Who, by the way, were metal smiths with little knowledge of electricity and no knowledge about stage lighting. Trivia for the day.)

 

[Esoteric]

I let the first one slide, but now that you've made the same mistake twice, in two different ways, it's off to http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...pelling-theatrical-brands-products-terms.html for you! Respect the brothers John and Anton. (Who, by the way, were metal smiths with little knowledge of electricity and no knowledge about stage lighting. Trivia for the day.)

Kliegl. Now it is in my spell check. I never was good with that one.

Thanks Derek

Mike